ls/vtec or gsr
31-Jan-2005, 04:23 PM
#1
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 69
ls/vtec or gsr
i heard its cheap to do an ls-vtec conversion (cheaper than a itr swap) and then ive heard its easier to do a gsr swap? im not exactly looking for the easiest way to go just the most effective that will give me the best outcome performance wise at the cheapest price?
what i origionally wanted to do was do an ls/vtec conversion into my 94 civic and then turbocharge it. in doing this i wanted to upgrade the valve train as well as the bottom end so it would be more suitable for a turbo . then i've heard that its not worth the trouble to do the ls/vtec and just turbo a gsr. but if i was to get a gsr and turbo would i not want to upgrade the valve train and bottom end anyways meaning i would be taking the motor apart anyways?
in either case should i be upgrading the valve train and bottom end for a turbo. for the ls/vtec i was going to uprgrade the valve train anyways but just mix and match with a stock itr? or should i go performance?
i already have an ls motor in my car right now and a b16a3 head that im about to rebuild. so im just curious in what would be the cheapest and most effective way to go? another thing is that i will be doing most of the work myself and my uncle is a mechanic so i wont be paying the high labour costs.
what i origionally wanted to do was do an ls/vtec conversion into my 94 civic and then turbocharge it. in doing this i wanted to upgrade the valve train as well as the bottom end so it would be more suitable for a turbo . then i've heard that its not worth the trouble to do the ls/vtec and just turbo a gsr. but if i was to get a gsr and turbo would i not want to upgrade the valve train and bottom end anyways meaning i would be taking the motor apart anyways?
in either case should i be upgrading the valve train and bottom end for a turbo. for the ls/vtec i was going to uprgrade the valve train anyways but just mix and match with a stock itr? or should i go performance?
i already have an ls motor in my car right now and a b16a3 head that im about to rebuild. so im just curious in what would be the cheapest and most effective way to go? another thing is that i will be doing most of the work myself and my uncle is a mechanic so i wont be paying the high labour costs.
31-Jan-2005, 04:36 PM
#3
i'd say if your gunna go turbo stay with your b18b and forget the b16 head.
If you wanna go lsvtec then you can build a great NA engine with OE parts. For example, use CTR or p30 pistons for a nice high CR, get ITR dual valve springs, ITR/CTR cams, use the ITR intake manifold and throttle body and get a decent header and you will have yourself a very nice budget lsvtec that'll put out some nice numbers.
The BIGGEST factor is budget. If the budget is large then i'd say built gsr turbo. But if the budget is small then b18b turbo, since you already have the ls engine in your car, sell the vtec head and use that money towards the turbo kit.
If you wanna go lsvtec then you can build a great NA engine with OE parts. For example, use CTR or p30 pistons for a nice high CR, get ITR dual valve springs, ITR/CTR cams, use the ITR intake manifold and throttle body and get a decent header and you will have yourself a very nice budget lsvtec that'll put out some nice numbers.
The BIGGEST factor is budget. If the budget is large then i'd say built gsr turbo. But if the budget is small then b18b turbo, since you already have the ls engine in your car, sell the vtec head and use that money towards the turbo kit.
31-Jan-2005, 04:46 PM
#4
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,431
it always comes down to if you know what your doign you can save some money and get soem extra hp.
lsv is good if you knwo what your doing
I'd save get a gsr get a good header high comp valves and thin headgasket and some skunk 2 s2 cams and a hondata, that will get you soem power to play with
lsv is good if you knwo what your doing
I'd save get a gsr get a good header high comp valves and thin headgasket and some skunk 2 s2 cams and a hondata, that will get you soem power to play with
31-Jan-2005, 04:51 PM
#5
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: in the MOSH pit
Posts: 5,550
If this is based around things you've heard, I say do some more research. Engine building is no simple affair and I would hate to see you put your money into something that didn't work.
Building an engine can cost a lot more than just buying a B18C. Factor into machining costs, and the rebuild.
But if you are looking for turbo, a turbo B18B would do great as well as a SOHC.
Building an engine can cost a lot more than just buying a B18C. Factor into machining costs, and the rebuild.
But if you are looking for turbo, a turbo B18B would do great as well as a SOHC.
31-Jan-2005, 07:08 PM
#6
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: miss.on.ca
Posts: 732
Originally posted by JookSingKid
If this is based around things you've heard, I say do some more research. Engine building is no simple affair and I would hate to see you put your money into something that didn't work.
Building an engine can cost a lot more than just buying a B18C. Factor into machining costs, and the rebuild.
But if you are looking for turbo, a turbo B18B would do great as well as a SOHC.
If this is based around things you've heard, I say do some more research. Engine building is no simple affair and I would hate to see you put your money into something that didn't work.
Building an engine can cost a lot more than just buying a B18C. Factor into machining costs, and the rebuild.
But if you are looking for turbo, a turbo B18B would do great as well as a SOHC.
01-Feb-2005, 10:00 AM
#7
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto, Miami
Posts: 13
Originally posted by b16civic
why does everyone think ls/vtec is cheap? in my experience i would save my pennys and go gsr. way less head aches. but that is only my oppinion. yes turbos make power but i find them to be a pain in the as*.
why does everyone think ls/vtec is cheap? in my experience i would save my pennys and go gsr. way less head aches. but that is only my oppinion. yes turbos make power but i find them to be a pain in the as*.
About the turbo thing thou . . . I will change you to the dark side sooner or later my young apprentice
What if I get a fuel press regulator??
I'm all about the sleeper look man... cuz my engine is so highly tuned with my intake and header 
haha
01-Feb-2005, 03:24 PM
#12
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto, Miami
Posts: 13
Originally posted by bbarbulo
^^
I also hope to show Steve the light of day when my stock internal single cam lays down 200 whp reliably, and ~170 torque.
^^
I also hope to show Steve the light of day when my stock internal single cam lays down 200 whp reliably, and ~170 torque.
Good luck dude, i'd like to see that!!
Yeah, you must have all the sticker to make it that fast(LOL)!!
bit of a SOHC freak myself. Ask Steve about my CRX!!LOL
01-Feb-2005, 03:33 PM
#13
D16Y7 w/ TD04L turbo from a 2002 WRX, home made SS304 manifold, Hondata 3BD, RC440, johnnyracecar.com intercooler, Holley pump, Y8 intake manifold, 2.5 inch charge pipes from JCWhitney, etc...
01-Feb-2005, 03:53 PM
#15
yeah, the turbo should be perfect. stock it runs a 2L engine to near 15 psi (1bar), so in my lil 1.6, it should be plenty of CFM and quick spool. I've clocked the turbo, cuz the way it's mounted on the WRX, the intake side pointed at the block when the oil drain was perpendicular to the ground, and the exhaust pointed down too... so I had to take it all apart and clock it properly.
here is a pic of the center section... I think I may have the ex side ceramic coated maybe?
here is a pic of the center section... I think I may have the ex side ceramic coated maybe?
01-Feb-2005, 04:15 PM
#16
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto, Miami
Posts: 13
Looks good
Yeah, just make sure the feed is straight up and down, and my advice (running bigger turbo's) put the biggest drain possible on it (A dash 10 or dash 12). check the back-and-forth play as well (wheel to wheel). There shouldn't be any.
If the housing is not rusty, it's creamic coated (actually i think they come coated from Subaru??).
Post some pics when your done. i'd like to see it.
Yeah, just make sure the feed is straight up and down, and my advice (running bigger turbo's) put the biggest drain possible on it (A dash 10 or dash 12). check the back-and-forth play as well (wheel to wheel). There shouldn't be any.
If the housing is not rusty, it's creamic coated (actually i think they come coated from Subaru??).
Post some pics when your done. i'd like to see it.
01-Feb-2005, 04:18 PM
#17
naw, not coated from Subaru (actually they use Mitsubishi turbos)
yeah, the feed is up and the drain is perfectly down... that's why I clocked the turbo
the drain will be a -8AN braided line... that's way bigger than the hole at the bottom of the turbo, so it should be plenty... plus space is a little limited so the line has to be somewhat flexy at least.
no fore-aft shaft play, the thing was taken off with 5000 miles on it
yeah, the feed is up and the drain is perfectly down... that's why I clocked the turbo
the drain will be a -8AN braided line... that's way bigger than the hole at the bottom of the turbo, so it should be plenty... plus space is a little limited so the line has to be somewhat flexy at least.
no fore-aft shaft play, the thing was taken off with 5000 miles on it
01-Feb-2005, 06:06 PM
#20
Originally posted by 91SiRacer
In an issue of Sport Compact car they showed how to do the LS/Vtec is not just a head swap it involves a lot more work and parts and I think it would be cheaper just to go with a gsr engine.
In an issue of Sport Compact car they showed how to do the LS/Vtec is not just a head swap it involves a lot more work and parts and I think it would be cheaper just to go with a gsr engine.
I think its a pretty simple decision. I will NEVER again buy a JDM engine from an importer or salvage yard. Sure they look clean when you pick them up, but how hard is it to clean an engine that sittin on the ground not running? You can pretty much bet that you are going to have to spend some money to get that engine, which nobody knows how long its been sitting for, running in top shape. I know i did, water pump and timing belt, thermoswitch, evap purge solenoid, clutch, pressure plate machining (not just resurfacing but balancing), dizzy, these were all things that needed to be replaced shortly and i mean shortly after i did the swap.
