lets talk about superchargers...
14-Sep-2004, 09:22 AM
#2
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those are about it... the difference between them being the Vortech charger is a snail (forgot the real name) like a turbo and the Jackson one is a roots blower...
personally I like the vortech one it builds boost in a better way in my opinion plus the fact that it doesn't replace the intake manifold means that you can route the piping through a intercooler... thereby allowing more boost
personally I like the vortech one it builds boost in a better way in my opinion plus the fact that it doesn't replace the intake manifold means that you can route the piping through a intercooler... thereby allowing more boost
14-Sep-2004, 09:35 AM
#4
gatherer, the word you are looking for is centrifugal supercharger
Punk, you don't see them for one simple reason, it take torque to turn a compressor, and torque we don't have to spare. turbo is by design more efficient cuz it uses waste products of combustion and puts it to good use, and it can be more effectively tuned by changing the design of the compressor wheels and so on. superchargers were born out of ease of installation, in cases where true dual exhausts make it prohibitively expensive to mount turbo systems.... even though some of the fastest small block mustangs are twin turbo V8... and not supercharged. S/C is just more cost effective in their case. In our case, not so.... so forget about it, ok?
Punk, you don't see them for one simple reason, it take torque to turn a compressor, and torque we don't have to spare. turbo is by design more efficient cuz it uses waste products of combustion and puts it to good use, and it can be more effectively tuned by changing the design of the compressor wheels and so on. superchargers were born out of ease of installation, in cases where true dual exhausts make it prohibitively expensive to mount turbo systems.... even though some of the fastest small block mustangs are twin turbo V8... and not supercharged. S/C is just more cost effective in their case. In our case, not so.... so forget about it, ok?
14-Sep-2004, 09:38 AM
#5
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bah everybody wants a turbo... i want to make a b16 do what it never could normal... have low end...
the vortech kit does make impressive power with the aftercooler 277hp and 175 ft*lbs at the wheels... but its a centrifugal design basically just a belt driven turbo compressor... they dont make sick low end cause they have to be spinning up high to make there power...
the jackson racing kit i'm not much a fan of... the lobe design generates quite a lot of heat... but again it makes decent numbers 191 hp and 130-140 something for torque...
i wonder how possible it would be for me to buy a twin screw compressor from something else and make it work
although as of now the vortech kit is the winner... although if i'm not getting a big bump in low end i may as well just get a much cheaper turbo set up
the vortech kit does make impressive power with the aftercooler 277hp and 175 ft*lbs at the wheels... but its a centrifugal design basically just a belt driven turbo compressor... they dont make sick low end cause they have to be spinning up high to make there power...
the jackson racing kit i'm not much a fan of... the lobe design generates quite a lot of heat... but again it makes decent numbers 191 hp and 130-140 something for torque...
i wonder how possible it would be for me to buy a twin screw compressor from something else and make it work
although as of now the vortech kit is the winner... although if i'm not getting a big bump in low end i may as well just get a much cheaper turbo set up
14-Sep-2004, 10:25 AM
#6
a turbo setup will always make more low end than a supercharger, they key is just in properly sizing your turbo. too many ppl oversize the turbo and then they complain of turbo lag. get a small ball bearing setup. I poop on JRSC's 140 lb-ft of torque.
yeah, you can buy a compressor and make it happen, 4 ppl I know have done just that... only one of the four is running a B series (B20). the projects were fun and all, but at the end 3 out of the 4 have opted for either a swap or turbo setups. so don't try to make history Rick, everything on a Civic has already been done, so just choose a combination that suits you and do it better than anyone (in quality of workmanship). If you want torque, you're really mistaken in choosing a B16A as your base.
yeah, you can buy a compressor and make it happen, 4 ppl I know have done just that... only one of the four is running a B series (B20). the projects were fun and all, but at the end 3 out of the 4 have opted for either a swap or turbo setups. so don't try to make history Rick, everything on a Civic has already been done, so just choose a combination that suits you and do it better than anyone (in quality of workmanship). If you want torque, you're really mistaken in choosing a B16A as your base.
14-Sep-2004, 10:26 AM
#7
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Originally posted by bbarbulo
Punk, you don't see them for one simple reason, it take torque to turn a compressor, and torque we don't have to spare.
Punk, you don't see them for one simple reason, it take torque to turn a compressor, and torque we don't have to spare.
but what if the torque required to spin the compressor is overcome by 14 psi at 2000 rpms?
twin screw compressors make there max boost around 1500-2000 rpm... though they dont make super high numbers but hell who cars
14-Sep-2004, 10:31 AM
#9
twin screws are know as roots type... aka most inefficient design
if you want some pointers, my friends took warranty-repaired M-B SLK Kompressor superchargers, M-B bypass valve, Talon side mount i/c, made a custom bracket to place the S/C where the air con. compressor used to be, and use an a/c belt to run it all... made 174 whp at 8 psi dyno tuned, and torque was 150 or 160. It was a D16Z6 w/ Hondata. you also need a control for the compressor clutch, you can buy it from Payn Tech who custom made it for these guys for $80 USD.
if you want some pointers, my friends took warranty-repaired M-B SLK Kompressor superchargers, M-B bypass valve, Talon side mount i/c, made a custom bracket to place the S/C where the air con. compressor used to be, and use an a/c belt to run it all... made 174 whp at 8 psi dyno tuned, and torque was 150 or 160. It was a D16Z6 w/ Hondata. you also need a control for the compressor clutch, you can buy it from Payn Tech who custom made it for these guys for $80 USD.
14-Sep-2004, 10:33 AM
#10
Endyn can recommend whatever man... the engine choice is one to be made by individuals who best know their own needs. If Endyn tells you you need a #029 ITR, are you gonna run out and buy that too?
back to the drawing board
14-Sep-2004, 11:50 AM
#15
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yep... cause psi is just a general amount of force air has on its surrounding... cfm is actual amount of air
like you can have a set cfm running through 2 different sized pipes... the smaller pipe will have more psi but both will have the same amount of air flowing
like you can have a set cfm running through 2 different sized pipes... the smaller pipe will have more psi but both will have the same amount of air flowing
14-Sep-2004, 12:17 PM
#17
Jason, it's really a relationship of the two that matters... each number individually is meaningless. For example, the electric s'uperchargers' on ebay say they flow 600 cfm... but they don't say what pressure they produce, which is virtually nothing. Therefore, they don't work. On the other hand, compressing 1 cfm to 50 psi and unleashing it on the motor will still do nothing... so the conclusion is, both numbers are equally important!!
14-Sep-2004, 12:24 PM
#18
electronblue, that's an H22A... and S/C setups work well on bigger engines, that's why I told you you need the JRSC. In Punk's case, he's looking at $3500 USD for a base Vortech kit, plus the aftercooler (about $1000 I'm guessing)... which would yield him less than spectacular numbers. A built boost D16Z will make 300 whp reliably, so it doesn't make sense to spend money on a B16A and then run stock internals for boost. There is no one solution for all individuals.
14-Sep-2004, 12:25 PM
#19
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I see Bruno .. good point.... at low pressures (say 4 or 5 PSI) do you need a higher CFM then you would at say 10 or 20 PSI?
is there a mathematical relationship between the 2 I fiure it have somethig to do with cross sectional area the speed of the air flow or something like that? do I make any sense
is there a mathematical relationship between the 2 I fiure it have somethig to do with cross sectional area the speed of the air flow or something like that? do I make any sense
