Honda Civic Performance - JDM Discussion Engine tech, forced induction, springs, shocks, brakes, tires, etc.

Koni/GC or Buddy Club Racing Spec coil-over

Old 01-Nov-2005, 01:14 PM
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Koni/GC or Buddy Club Racing Spec coil-over

disregard, i'm sticking with Koni/GC


I'm sticking with Koni Yellows with Ground-Control at 380F/430R
Reason why i'm sticking with Koni/GC is because of spring rates, cost and ease of customization.

Buddy Club N-spec = 12K/6K which is 675F/337R
Buddy Club Racing-spec = 12K/8K which is 675F/450R
Progress competition coilovers = 350F/250R

I'm trying to eliminate understeer, not get more so why the hell would anyone want 675/337..thats just retarded. Custom rates could be ordered, but I think i'll stick with GC, for $75cdn a spring I can get any rate I want so if 380F/430R dosen't work, $150 and i'll get different rear springs and pop the 430 in the front, or the 380 in the rear...it really allows me to customize the suspension exactly to my stardards of driving and both the Koni and GC has lifetime warranty

Read pages upon pages of positive reviews on Honda-tech, people swear by the Koni/GC combo over anything else up to over $1000usd including Tein Flex and Tanabe.

Just thought i'd share with others so they can see this if they are thinking of coilovers for purely performance not cosmetic (just use Omni in that case)
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Old 02-Nov-2005, 05:58 PM
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just an update form anyone else thinking of going ground-control coilovers....spoke with them on the phone (great customer service and real racers too) and they recommended 380F/430R (6.75K front and 7.65K rear) rates for a daily driver that will see some auto-x duties, this is after telling them i have a 22mm RSB and koni yellows.

Also went with the GC extended top hats which allow an extra 1" of suspension travel, this will help with lowered cars and keep it off the bump stops.

They were good about discussing spring rates, i was originally going to go with 400F/350R but decided on 380F/430R as its their recommended rates for auto-x/daily driver but they said right up front, if your braking hard and turn the wheel sharp...the cars *** end WILL step out with the 22mm RSB forsure, 100% forsure. While this is a good thing for auto-x, it is not for daily driver so its something i'll have to experiment with and know the newly raised limits of the car. its really no different then turning sharp and slamming the brakes on in a mustang or other RWD vehicle though. I can't wait for spring to rock this new suspension set-up and join TCC auto-x 2006 will be a fun year.
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Old 02-Nov-2005, 10:14 PM
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i don't know why you would want to slam on your brakes in a corner because your rotors won't last too long that way. for sure your rear end will be much happier but will it be a bit too much? unless you compete in autox or something i think your rear end will be too happy for you on a daily basis. what is it exactly that you're looking for anyways? lower drop? handle better? adjustability? i don't know if you can elimate understeer completely but some understeer is good for bad weather just incase .
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Old 03-Nov-2005, 07:48 AM
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I picked this suspension as a mix for auto-x i want to get into in the spring and for better handling. the drop will be minor at max 1.75". i'm not too worried about inducing oversteer because no matter what a civic will never step out like a mustang, and to aid a progressive transition from nuetral to oversteer I also got the GC soft progressive bump stops, so if the car is going to hit the bump stops, it will be progressive not snap oversteer, otherwise its up to the limit of the tires which Hankook R-S2 Z212 have stupid high grip limits and also with tires it should not be to hard to learn the limits.

there are options available to me as well, if its too oversteer happy, loose the 22mm RSB and try the stock 13mm again (for 1.6EL) or switch the springs around so 430F/380R instead of 380F/430R or even buy two other springs at custom rates so front is 100 higher then rear.

Thats why I like this kit, so many options and adjustability. In the rain with low grip of course i'll be going slow anyways, i don't like to play in the rain, just the dry. Its definately going to be a drastic change from the Illuminas/H&R sports I had before but I found them to be great handling and looks, but alittle soft for my tastes.
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Old 03-Nov-2005, 01:06 PM
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so you went with spring rates I'm using (I have 350F 450R) anyways I do think you should ease into it.. a stiffer rear then front is something that takes alot to get used too... on the street personally I never have an issue. but thats also because I crive like my grandma on the street.. at autocrosses yeah it gets tail happy but thats what the gas pedal is suppose to fix...
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Old 03-Nov-2005, 02:13 PM
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Koni/GC is not a bad combination compared to Tein Flex or Omni Power. However I don't believe that it is better combination then Buddy Club's Race Spec, expecially if you get pillow ***** too. In the end, the GC extended top hats really only allow more travel.

Aswell, I believe the combination would function better since everything is pre-matched, (spring to shock) and that custom spring rates and valving is available from Buddy Club and Progress. (race spec only) Buying ERS Springs from Eibach are great!! but are your shocks valved for the different rates??

As for price Koni/GC is definetly cheaper then either one of those.

Not trying to cause ****, just trying to inform you before you buy. Good luck
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Old 03-Nov-2005, 03:11 PM
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koni makes shocks that are specifically for the gcs don't they? so wouldn't they be matched as well.
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Old 03-Nov-2005, 05:29 PM
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Jason, yeah, you were pretty much right on for rates but after talking to a person at ground-control I decided on the 380/430 because it can be set to 430/380 in a heart-beat. It will take some bigtime getting used too and I also usually drive like a grandma on the street, but I do like to play on corners...especially on or off-ramps. Your advice was pretty much right on the entire time and parrelled ground-control's thoughts.

Dave, i couldn't afford the pillow-ball mounts with Buddy Club and I really didn't like their spring rates of 12K/8K for the racing-spec. 12K/8K is 675F/450R which is very high front, very, very high and high rear but also with a large gap in the difference of front and rear. while custom rates could be ordered, I think the Koni/GC was a better set-up, its proven and completely adjustable. The extended mounts add 1" on travel or close to 50% since there is only about 2-3" of travel on a lower Honda anyways, so it will help keep the car off the bump stops.

Kevin, The Koni's well not perfectly matched are within spec for the GC's in these rates. Specific valving would not help alot because a medium to stiffer setting on the Koni's fits the GC's in these rates, and i'm not planing on setting the shocks for a soft ride anyways. but no, they are not specifically valved, but are capable of 500 rates and up before a re-valve is needed.

Tein Flex was my only other option that provided combo I was looking for, but the Koni/GC is still a few hundred cheaper and I just can't justify spending that much on a street car with some auto-x...even the Koni Yellow/GC were pushing it.

I reviewed Omni (out due to some problems and new product), Buddy Club racong-spec (out due to ****ty spring rates), Tein Flex (****ty spring rates 504F/280R), Tein Master Circuit RA (would love too, it'd be way overkill on the street for a 1.6EL with rates of 783/559!), Megan-Racing coilovers (****ty spring rates) and I reviewed a few others too but it was either price, questionable reliability or ****ty spring rates/lack of customizing.

Price wise it really came down to Koni/GC with extended mounts vs Tein Flex vs Buddy Club racing-spec (w/o pillow-ball mounts) vs Progress comeptition coilovers (350F/250R rates) but it was really Tein Flex or Koni/GC
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Old 03-Nov-2005, 06:47 PM
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it's been a pleasure helping you thus far. (I think it's because you took time to find information yourself that really is a plus)

if you want next autoX season I can help tuning the car further.. however I'd have to actually drive it during an autocross to see how it handles and give feedback that way.
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Old 03-Nov-2005, 08:47 PM
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thanks, i'll be sure to hit you up for advice at an event...especially since i won't really know what the hell i'm doing yet.

The worst part is i'll have all this stuff ready to go...but have to wait 4-5 months to put it on the car
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Old 04-Nov-2005, 12:47 AM
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After a whole lot of research I've decided to go with koni/GC combination too, I already got the springs but still shopping around for the koni shocks, do u guys know who has the best deal on them locally?? either new or used

I have a 2001 lx btw
thanks
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Old 04-Nov-2005, 12:58 AM
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contact a friend of mine...

brian [AT} mosiracedynamics.com

tell him Jason with the Blue and yellow hatchbakc sent you to get a price on Shocks....
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Old 04-Nov-2005, 10:24 AM
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Koni makes good products. I am using F16K/R14K for daily driving, and the shocks are set to level 2. I once set it to 3/4 and my car was oversteering crazy. Granted, I am an idiot, not really know how to drive. But I don't get much understeer as well.

I guess it all depends on how you drive and how much pressure and force your tires can take.
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Old 04-Nov-2005, 10:37 AM
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When it really boils down to it, and you can ask any racer this!!!
Just use whatever you feel comfortable with, it's whatever works for you (regardless of sponsors or other opinions)
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Old 04-Nov-2005, 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by Nova_Dust

I guess it all depends on how you drive and how much pressure and force your tires can take.

exactly right, never understood how spend like $1000-$2000 on suspension then buy cheaper all-season summer tires like Proxes 4, Zeix 512 etc. While a great tires for what they are, people spend the dough on a great suspension, buy a max summer only tire like Falken Azenis RT-615, Hankook Z212 or BF Goodrich G-Force to really take advantage of that suspension.

People don't see suspension as a package from tires, springs, shocks, chassis braces, sway bars, bushings, alignment, tire pressures....its a package and you get what you pay for.

and of course the best upgrade is yourself, auto-x or a good performance driving course will help, i'm going to give auto-x a try and if needed, i'll sign up for a good performance driving school to get the most from the car.
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Old 04-Nov-2005, 12:40 PM
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Yes, tires are very important. Come next year, I might still stick with RA1 or give A032 a try.
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Old 05-Nov-2005, 06:23 PM
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the buddy club racing spec come with 10k/8k, or can we can have any spring rate you like up to 16k, or we can have the thing revavled for higher spring rates in the future. single piston, so it is better for heat transfer.

as for the N+ spec, the thing is a typo, it is 10k front and 6k rear, as we have a couple sets in our shop.
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Old 05-Nov-2005, 06:30 PM
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was going by the pm you and others sent me john for the rates, all stating 12K/8K for racing-spec and 12K/6K for n-spec as the standard rates.

but 10K/8K is better for racing-spec, 10K/6K is still odd for the n-spec.

works out to approx:
565F/450R - racing-spec
565F/337R - n-spec
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Old 05-Nov-2005, 06:32 PM
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no problem, yeah the rates on the site are wrong, don't know why they haven't changed them. pm me if you have any questions.
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Old 05-Nov-2005, 06:33 PM
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for the n+ i can also get the 8k for the rear too. As for the racing spec compared to koni yellow and ground control, the racing spec are superior in my opion as i have driven on both. As for N+ spec one i have yet to try them yet, i will ask Kenny as he has aset on his car.
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