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Hybrid B20/LSVTEC/B16/Other ?

Old 19-Mar-2006, 03:14 PM
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Arrow Hybrid B20/LSVTEC/B16/Other ?

I'm thinking of swapping my high mileage engine out around June. So I'm trying to figure out what setup would be best so I can get enough money.
I'm swapping it into a EJ6 (EK sedan), so my goal would be around 185-200 WHP. I'm hoping to stay away from cams & pistons.
  • B20 (thinking JDM - Z..taking about CRV) with SiR Tranny
  • LS (later on do a minimi swap)
  • B16
  • Other

- I'm not that much for B16....because I'm just sick of them.
- Not going H22 because I've heard that other than them burning oil, they have a problem with their transmissions.
- K series would be nice....but its just too expensive
- and a b18c5 (ITR) would just get stolen.

so I'm really between the B20 and the LS....

- B20 with B16 tranny Plus if I do go b20 maybe later on putting a b16/b18 (VTEC) head on it.

- LS + b16/b18 VTEC head (VTEC had leter on) and maybe a b16 tranny as well.

I'm really looking for a N/A setup.... for a daily driver.... just a little more reliable.

I'm looking for you personal opinion.... what setup would you take. If you have a suggestion on an engine that I've over looked please let me know.... tell me the pros/cons of it. And if you think that I'm not aware of some of the engine cons that I've listed let me know.

thanks for looking
all opinions/response welcome
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 03:18 PM
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personally have a b20 with sir head, great for daily drving but the fact is that your not gonna get 180whp outa stock head and block. Use any vtec head and send it out to get port and polished and some skunk 2 cams springs. Then yopull reach your goal of 185-200 whp with dyno tuned. But then again your looking at around 2500 dollars just on your head alone.
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 03:33 PM
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ok.....well then I would probably have to go with cams......maybe pistons..... would that be more realistic?
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 03:43 PM
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why would you think a c5 would get stolen over any other motor? It just depends on where you go/leave your car.. I think it would be more of a case if someone saw your car and they'd just take the whole thing and find out what they got when they strip it.. lets hope something like that never happens though (knock on wood)

anyhow, I think a c5 would be the best decision for a daily.. you can get 180ish whp just stock and that would be most reliable than messing around swapping different heads and stuff.. it might be at the top end of your price range or maybe even out of it, compared to swapping and then swapping a head later down the road..
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 03:47 PM
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yea that's the problem with a c5.... its out of my price range.... it would be great to do that since with just a few bolt ons that engine would keep me happy..... for a very long time.....
I'm more for the other setups because I would not need to put down as much money right away..... and could invest more down the road...


thanks for your replies guys!
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 04:00 PM
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i'd go with a b20 w/gsr tranny. B20s still use 87 octane and have lots of torque, which makes for a really fun, reliable daily driver that doesn't brake the bank. Plus, there is always the option of a vtec head or boost later on. People even have had good sucess building n/a ls/b20 non vtecs.
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 04:16 PM
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b18c5 most you can to the floor is 150 whp fully tuned. 180 done stock once again is really unreallistc
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 05:01 PM
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h22, check out the special teknotik has, its a great deal,
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by USDMSIG
h22, check out the special teknotik has, its a great deal,
wow you really are stupid when it comes to reading arent you?
which part of not going with h22 were you not able to understand?
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by zeeman
i'd go with a b20 w/gsr tranny. B20s still use 87 octane and have lots of torque, which makes for a really fun, reliable daily driver that doesn't brake the bank. Plus, there is always the option of a vtec head or boost later on. People even have had good sucess building n/a ls/b20 non vtecs.
andrew just curious, why the gsr tranny? I heard they are long gear trannies, kinda like the LS but obvs. not that similar. Why not go with a b16a2 tranny with an ls 5th gear for better mileage?


Anyways.. 185-200whp is not easy to get with a limited budget. You said the c5 was too expensive (4500$) but realistically.. making 185-200whp NA and making it reliable will be around the same price.. if not, more.
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 05:25 PM
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The c5 fully tuned and bone stock you will only see around 150-155 whp.
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by plzbeleiveit
The c5 fully tuned and bone stock you will only see around 150-155 whp.
i understood you the 1st time

and what do you mean fully tuned? do you mean getting his ecu chipped with a program? Because if you do, you'll get better numbers than 150whp
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by plzbeleiveit
The c5 fully tuned and bone stock you will only see around 150-155 whp.
ya...ok. My b16 puts down more than that, i have the dyno sheet to prove it.
Stock gsr's put out 150-160whp and ITRs put out 165-175whp.
Here are a few dyno sheets to prove what i am saying is true.
http://www.allmotorhonda.com/techpag...b18c5_list.htm

Chris:
I said use the GSR tranny b/c of his budget. Getting the parts and paying someone to open up your tranny and change the 5th gear will be expensive. However, IMO it (next to ITR w/LS 5th) would be the best tranny to use. But gsr's still have short enough gears to have good acceleration but long enough not to be at 4000rpms in 5th gear @ 120km/hr like with the b16 tranny. The b20 isn't a b16 and revving at 4000 for extended periods of time (highway) isn't as easy on the engine as it is for the short stroked, rev happy b16.
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 05:42 PM
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after i re-read the thread, i figured it must of been because of his budget thanks
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 05:43 PM
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You have to remember that going N/A is an expensive route. With a mild boost setup on an LS you could easily reach 200whp and that setup would still be fairly cheap. However 200whp on N/A will take a bit more cash.
Either way, if you want to stay N/A my opinion is that you should build a nice LS/Vtec, but do it right. Buy an ls block, then throw in some higher compression pistons. I believe a lot of guys run the b16 pistons in their LS/vtecs. Some mild street cams, and a lightly built head. You dont need to build the engine like crazy, but if your making a hybrid you might as well upgrade a few things if its all apart anyways. Im sure that setup would easily get you close to the 200whp mark but it would probably cost about 3k-4k depending on what deals you could find.
BTW I chose the ls/vtec over the b20/vtec only because you want reliability, and I have read of more problems with b20/vtecs then ls/vtecs.
When I was going to go with an ls/vtec I had a budget of 3k, and after looking into things I found that I would be able to meet that budget. But that ls/vtec would have got me similair power output to a gsr, so I decided to boost my D16.
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 05:48 PM
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i dont know about 3-4K on an ls/vtec that will reach 200whp with all the machine work and labour charged.

Going NA is very costly.. especially if you are going to pay people to do the work for you. But no matter what you build, do it right the first time.. dont cheap out. If you must, save for a few more months then build an NA engine.

Or just take it slowly.. get the LS.. get a better tranny.. purchase the head.. buy the parts for it, bring it to the machine shop, etc, etc. Just make sure you do it right!
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 05:58 PM
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ok I understand what you guys are telling me......
1st. whatever engine I go with if I don't do cams and pistons it would be pretty imposible for me to get up to that power level.
2nd. that it would be easier to boost it.....

I know that NA is a really expensive route.... but at the end I think for a daily driver (all year long) it could be better....
The reason why I would avoid the C5 is because at this time I would not be able to give that much money (around 5,000).... however after swaping another engine I would be able to invest that money down the road.

so more realisticly let me say that the idea of 185-200 is on hold for now....

so I guess now, my realy question would be what engine setup would benefit me later down the road when it comes to reliability and power.

Would it even be better to swap in an engine and keep it completly stock (trany and internals) and then later on adding some more modds.

thanks for all your replies.
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 06:04 PM
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my opinion would be the LS. The LS is cheap, you can find parts for them very easily..

I would keep the engine stock and upgrade the driveline just so its fun to drive..

other than that.. just save your money and you can invest in an lsvtec if you want in the future and be close to your power goals.
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Old 19-Mar-2006, 11:00 PM
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B20 + 4.4FD or 4.785FD tranny will put a smile on your face, compare to D16. Do that and if you outgrow that setup, put in a few more grand and upgrade it. But this way, you get to enjoy the power in different stages, like stock D16 to stock B20, then to B20VTEC/nonVTEC, and whatever after that.

B20 with 4.785FD = 100km with 5th gear at 3500~3600RPM, so highway driving sucks, but local town driving is fun. I wouldn't worry too much about the revving issue.
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Old 20-Mar-2006, 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by Team Rukus


wow you really are stupid when it comes to reading arent you?
which part of not going with h22 were you not able to understand?
grow up kid. U must have been dropped alot when you where a kid. (thats all the insight u have) call people names?

His reasons for not going h22 are based on rumurs and not facts.
"
Not going H22 because I've heard that other than them burning oil, they have a problem with their transmissions."
h22 would be ideal especially in a 4door. But thats just me
Now looking at his choices, ls or b20 and then adding a vtec head and being reliable, is costly, around the type r mark. Sou might as well save up and go b18c(r)
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