Help! Engine won't start
11-Apr-2006, 11:37 AM
#21
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 71
Thanks for your reply. When you mentioned that the starter is messed - can you please explain in detail? I always thought that if the starter spins and cranks the engine, then the starter is ok?
Originally posted by Team Rukus
could be your starter.
have a friend tap on the starter with a rod or something while you try to crank it.
even tho the car is cranking it could still mean the starter is messed because it is not allowing it to turn over.
could be your starter.
have a friend tap on the starter with a rod or something while you try to crank it.
even tho the car is cranking it could still mean the starter is messed because it is not allowing it to turn over.
11-Apr-2006, 11:43 AM
#22
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 71
Hi...
Thanks for your reply. However, for your (b) and (d) points below, I've mentioned in my original post "2) Check Engine light goes out after 2 seconds when the key is in the "ON" position and I can hear the fuel pump prime during those 2 seconds - so, fuel pump and main relay should be good", and "3) Can smell gas while cranking - fuel is delivered to the engine without problems. Also, after removing a spark plug, I can see gasoline on the spark plug - so there IS fuel in the engine - so, fuel pump and main relay should be good".
So, the fuel pump and injectors should be ok, and there's fuel delivered to the plugs (and that means the fuel filter is not clogged.
Also, firing order is correct - I've checked the plug wires and they're hooked up to the distributor cap properly, in the right order.
Any other suggestions please?
Thanks for your reply. However, for your (b) and (d) points below, I've mentioned in my original post "2) Check Engine light goes out after 2 seconds when the key is in the "ON" position and I can hear the fuel pump prime during those 2 seconds - so, fuel pump and main relay should be good", and "3) Can smell gas while cranking - fuel is delivered to the engine without problems. Also, after removing a spark plug, I can see gasoline on the spark plug - so there IS fuel in the engine - so, fuel pump and main relay should be good".
So, the fuel pump and injectors should be ok, and there's fuel delivered to the plugs (and that means the fuel filter is not clogged.
Also, firing order is correct - I've checked the plug wires and they're hooked up to the distributor cap properly, in the right order.
Any other suggestions please?
Originally posted by Dominik
If you're getting spark then there's a fuel problem.
a) while cranking put a screwdriver on the injector and your ear to the handle end of it. If you hear clicking then they are firing.
b) if they are firing but no start, when you click the the ignition to ACC, listen carefully for the fuel pump, it will be a gentle hum for a 3-4 seconds.
c) if the injectors fire, and fuel pump works, it's probably your firing order.
d) if the pump is not humming, take some brake cleaner and give it a rip, it will start no matter what. If your fire order is correct, the brake cleaner will ignite. If the motor starts you've got a fuel delivery problem. Which can be a dead pump or clogged filter.
Good luck.
If you're getting spark then there's a fuel problem.
a) while cranking put a screwdriver on the injector and your ear to the handle end of it. If you hear clicking then they are firing.
b) if they are firing but no start, when you click the the ignition to ACC, listen carefully for the fuel pump, it will be a gentle hum for a 3-4 seconds.
c) if the injectors fire, and fuel pump works, it's probably your firing order.
d) if the pump is not humming, take some brake cleaner and give it a rip, it will start no matter what. If your fire order is correct, the brake cleaner will ignite. If the motor starts you've got a fuel delivery problem. Which can be a dead pump or clogged filter.
Good luck.
12-Apr-2006, 05:35 AM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Etobicoke
Posts: 621
I had the same problem a little while back. I changed plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor, fuel filter and cleaned my intake filter. While cranking I had the pedal all the way down, and she reluctantly started, made all kinds of smoke and then went back to normal. Maybe your car isn't getting enough fuel to start becuase of a dirty fuel filter, I was told that they are susposed to be changed every 70,000 or so km. Its worth changing/cleaning your air filter too. Best of luck man, this **** is frusterating, I know.
14-Apr-2006, 01:40 AM
#29
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 71
My engine is definitely getting lots of fuel - when I removed the spark plugs - they're soaking wet with fuel and I can smell fuel when cranking the engine. I've also tried to floor the gas pedal to allow more air in - as suggested in the manual for starting an engine that's flooded with fuel.
I've also bought a used, but working ECU and tested it - engine still won't start.
So I believe I have covered all the basics....my car has fuel in the combustion chamber, has spark on the spark plugs, and has an ECU that I know works properly. Also, battery is fully charged, lots of juice. Starter engages and cranks the engine. Also, the timing belt is not broken - the valves move when the engine is cranking. I've bypass the starter/fuel cutoff of the aftermarket alarm - so the alarm doesn't have any impact.
Can any one else please help? Thanks very much in advance!
I've also bought a used, but working ECU and tested it - engine still won't start.
So I believe I have covered all the basics....my car has fuel in the combustion chamber, has spark on the spark plugs, and has an ECU that I know works properly. Also, battery is fully charged, lots of juice. Starter engages and cranks the engine. Also, the timing belt is not broken - the valves move when the engine is cranking. I've bypass the starter/fuel cutoff of the aftermarket alarm - so the alarm doesn't have any impact.
Can any one else please help? Thanks very much in advance!
14-Apr-2006, 10:14 AM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: not to far from hamilton
Posts: 1,982
IMO i'd try and see if someone has a good dizzy that you can try and see if it works. if it does buy it (might have a weak igniter in the dizzy)..
if none of that works if you still have the stuff you took off i suggest swapping it all back to how it was 1 part after another and see when and or if she goes.
thats just what i would do in this situation.
all i can think of is the igniter as you can get spark but obviously not from the plug right? (how did you chec for spark?)
if none of that works if you still have the stuff you took off i suggest swapping it all back to how it was 1 part after another and see when and or if she goes.
thats just what i would do in this situation.
all i can think of is the igniter as you can get spark but obviously not from the plug right? (how did you chec for spark?)
14-Apr-2006, 02:31 PM
#31
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 71
I got spark from the plugs - I took out a plug and attached it to the plug wire. Then hold the plug wire and ground the plug on the valve cover. I had someone crank the engine and I can see strong sparks jumping the gap on the spark plug.
I've tried this for all plug wires and plugs - so I'm definitely getting sparks on all 4 plugs from all 4 plug wires.
I'm now quite sure that the problem is not caused by ignition problem(s).
Again, here's a list of things that I've checked and the outcomes:
1) Dizzy, ignitor, ignition coil, plugs, plug wires - they are working fine because I'm getting strong sparks from the plugs
2) Battery - fully charged, lots of juice
3) ECU - tried another ECU that i know works perfectly in another car, and the check engine light goes out after 2 seconds (normal for a good ECU). I've jumped the service port and the check engine light stays on - no blinking check engine light (normal for a good ECU too) - means no stored codes.
4) Fuel supply - when I removed the plugs - they're soaked with fuel - so there's lots of fuel in the combustion chamber. So Fuel pump, fuel filter are both ok. I've even tried to remove all 4 plugs and let the fuel evaporate for 2 hours - I thought that too much fuel may prevent the plugs from sparking (i.e. a flooded engine). Engine still doesn't fire - I've also floored the gas pedal while cranking. Engine still doesn't fire.
5) Main relay - I can hear/feel the 3 clicks - first click when ignition on - fuel pump primes for 2 seconds, then check engine light goes out and I feel another click. Then when cranking the engine, I feel the 3rd click.
6) Timing belt is not broken - I can see the valves move when peeking through the oil filler hole.
7) Starter - it's working - since the engine cranks at a normal speed.
8) Since I'm getting fuel in the combustion chamber, does this mean the fuel injectors are ok too?
Can any one please suggest what else I should check? Thanks!
I've tried this for all plug wires and plugs - so I'm definitely getting sparks on all 4 plugs from all 4 plug wires.
I'm now quite sure that the problem is not caused by ignition problem(s).
Again, here's a list of things that I've checked and the outcomes:
1) Dizzy, ignitor, ignition coil, plugs, plug wires - they are working fine because I'm getting strong sparks from the plugs
2) Battery - fully charged, lots of juice
3) ECU - tried another ECU that i know works perfectly in another car, and the check engine light goes out after 2 seconds (normal for a good ECU). I've jumped the service port and the check engine light stays on - no blinking check engine light (normal for a good ECU too) - means no stored codes.
4) Fuel supply - when I removed the plugs - they're soaked with fuel - so there's lots of fuel in the combustion chamber. So Fuel pump, fuel filter are both ok. I've even tried to remove all 4 plugs and let the fuel evaporate for 2 hours - I thought that too much fuel may prevent the plugs from sparking (i.e. a flooded engine). Engine still doesn't fire - I've also floored the gas pedal while cranking. Engine still doesn't fire.
5) Main relay - I can hear/feel the 3 clicks - first click when ignition on - fuel pump primes for 2 seconds, then check engine light goes out and I feel another click. Then when cranking the engine, I feel the 3rd click.
6) Timing belt is not broken - I can see the valves move when peeking through the oil filler hole.
7) Starter - it's working - since the engine cranks at a normal speed.
8) Since I'm getting fuel in the combustion chamber, does this mean the fuel injectors are ok too?
Can any one please suggest what else I should check? Thanks!
15-Apr-2006, 07:03 PM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: -=Steel City=-
Posts: 383
i have a 90 accord as a beater car and last summer it did the same thing, i replaced the main relay (was about $90 from honda), put it in and vrOommm, perfecto...maybe u should even try to find a used one and just try it to see if thats the prob (i would hate to see u spend $90 if that wasnt the prob after all)
Mike~
Mike~
16-Apr-2006, 09:23 PM
#36
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 71
Thanks for your suggestion. However, I've taken the soaked plugs out, then dried them. Then hooked them up to the plug wires and crank the engine and grounded the plugs - the plugs still produce strong sparks. Do I still need to replace the plugs?
Thanks.
Thanks.
16-Apr-2006, 09:39 PM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,176
Originally posted by civic1
Thanks for your suggestion. However, I've taken the soaked plugs out, then dried them. Then hooked them up to the plug wires and crank the engine and grounded the plugs - the plugs still produce strong sparks. Do I still need to replace the plugs?
Thanks.
Thanks for your suggestion. However, I've taken the soaked plugs out, then dried them. Then hooked them up to the plug wires and crank the engine and grounded the plugs - the plugs still produce strong sparks. Do I still need to replace the plugs?
Thanks.
yes replace them.. they arent that expensive
