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Hard starting below quarter tank fuel

Old 26-Aug-2003, 03:08 PM
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Hard starting below quarter tank fuel

Hey guys, Im just wondering if this a common Honda thing, or if my fuel pump is getting weak...

My Engine starts like a snap all the time one crank at the most... But when I get below a quarter tank it takes about 2 cranks and the lower my tank gets after that the more cranks it takes to get the fuel to my engine... and when Im around the red line it sometimes takes allot to get it started, but once it starts it drives normally and I can go for another 60k at least till i make it to a gas station..

NOW I know somones gonna be smart a *** and say well dont let your tank get that low problem solved, its bad for your engine anyway cuz it sucks up dirt from the tank...blah blah...save it!! I already know this!!! LOL

just want to know if its a sign of a weak pump, or if its a common honda thing...

Thanks peoples
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 03:11 PM
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generally a sign of a weak pump... saturns have this problem commonly, most of them in the 1997 production year, also hot starts become impossible for the same reason.
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 03:12 PM
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well letting your tank get super low or even empty mean you risk not having the pump emmersed in gas which cools it . therefore it could have over heated a bit and be slowing down...
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 03:22 PM
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ok tnx bbarbulo, ive been planning on replaceing the pump with a walboro255, just hasnt been prioraty, mabey ill bump it to the top of my list now! :Thumbup:
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by gatherer
well letting your tank get super low or even empty mean you risk not having the pump emmersed in gas which cools it . therefore it could have over heated a bit and be slowing down...

This is true, ...Ive never let it run compleatley dry, but i have let it get below the red line a few times...

Another thing, the problem is really bad when parked on a hill, so im assuming the pump is at the front of the tank...
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 03:27 PM
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Ya, it's kinda at the front of the tank You can see it underneath your rear bench seat. http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...L+TANK+%281%29
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 03:32 PM
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cool tnx... so to change it...it seems like a fairly straight forward install...no tank removal or anything, just pop up the back bench, remove positive/negative remove the fuel line, and a bracket or something hold it in place, maybe replace a seal or something... Ill check oput my Haynes tonight after work...
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 04:19 PM
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That is correct... access cover under the seat... there should be a ring that you turn to get the pump out... then replace. I'll be doing mine with the 255 Holley pump I bought once I put my B&M press reg in.
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 05:15 PM
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are the Hollys better than the walboro pumps? Ill be doing an fpr also then the 65 shot zex jets go in safely
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 06:36 PM
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i know i had to remove my tank... i could open the tank from under the seat... thats where my sending unit was... i have a 4th gen too
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by BoOsTZeX
are the Hollys better than the walboro pumps? Ill be doing an fpr also then the 65 shot zex jets go in safely
as far as i know the holley is a rebadged walbro
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 08:18 PM
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^^^^ tnx mrchaos... i dint know this^^^
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 08:22 PM
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Woah,woah

Before changing your fuel pump, on 6th Gen Civics, this is a very common thing. There is nothing wrong with the car. From how you describe it, it seems like it takes just a little longer to start when the tank is low. This happens because as the tank gets lower in fuel, the remaining pressure, when the car is turned off, also drops.

What can you do? Well, Honda recommends (for all Hondas), when starting, to turn the key to the "On" position (i.e. no cranking), wait a few seconds until some lights on the dash go off then crank it. This allows the fuel pump to build pressure in the fuel system. Also, it is good for the ECU/PCM for it to initialize. It seems like a pain but once you get used to it, it's like second nature. One think you can do while you wait for the lights to go out is to fasten your seat belts....

What bbarbulo said about "generally a sign of a weak pump" is true but not in this case. The stress should be in "generally". If you change your pump, I don't think there will be any difference. I am not sure if you believe me but generally bbarbulo trusts me. I have really good sources.

At least you can try the waiting before cranking thing. It won't cost you any money...

Mark
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 08:28 PM
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yah you are right i tryed that waiting before cranking ...it does work sometimes, but when the tank is well below a quarter, it doesnt seem to help much... it fires right up after if the car is off only for less than an hour, but if it sits more than that the whole system looses pressure...

I'll be swapping out the pump anyway for the bigger nitrous setup so I guess Ill see if it helps, if not, then i guess ill have to live with it, do the waiting thing longer, or just never let it get that low...

tnx for your response
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 11:15 PM
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Just a wild guess but could a bad gas cap be relieving the pressure in the tank rather than maintaining it. If this is the case maybe he needs a new gas cap.
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Old 26-Aug-2003, 11:21 PM
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good thinkin ohmstable!!! I do hear a werid sound like releiveing pressure when my car sits...the sound is impossible to explain...maybe thats it, ill look into it (maybe listen to the cap) ...tnx for the original thought... trouble shooting at its finest, keep em comin...lol

is this a possability bbarbulo?
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Old 27-Aug-2003, 03:57 AM
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I have a 97 Civic Si, and I also experience the same start up problems with and fairly empty tank. From what I have heard this is common as there is little pressure in the tank.

I would't bother changing the pump unless you have some extra cash lying around. Fill the tank and be on your way.
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Old 27-Aug-2003, 07:01 AM
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One more comment, about the gas cap thing. If your gas cap was at fault, you would definitely have your "Check Engine Light" come on. Heck, it can come on if you don't click your cap at least 3 times. Your car is a '97. Since '96, all cars are OBD II and are required to give a code if this were to happen. I'm sure your gas cap is fine.

Mark
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Old 27-Aug-2003, 09:14 AM
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Mark does have a good point. I've watched my fuel press drop after priming, and it does take about a good hour plus. (no I wasn't bored, I had the fuel press gauge in my face while doing the valve adjust, so I took notice) Nonetheless, your pump is weak! Perhaps Civics were undererquipped as economy cars with a smallish pump, so in any case, upgrade to a Prelude or Walbro. The Denso unit is quite silent too... I expect the Holley to wake up the neighbors when it primes Yes, my Holley IS in fact stamped as a Walbro unit, but it's a forced induction model rated at MORE than 255 lph.
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Old 27-Aug-2003, 09:19 AM
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Mark, I think you are right though, this may be a common complaint, but with an exaggerated problem like ZeX has, I would blame a weakening pump. Personally, the prime, then start procedure has been my habit for as long as I've been driving. Having lived in Ottawa, nothing sucks more than not starting the car on first crank (cuz after that it just tends to flood) in -40 weather, so you do everything possible to make sure it starts.

I had a problem ONCE with my Civic (around 1999/2000) when I hopped in, and cranked for like 15 long seconds... didn't catch... Never happened again, I was unable to ever reproduce the problem... maybe that was it.
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