Getting agrevated - setting timing
17-Apr-2004, 02:30 PM
#1
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Posts: 611
Getting agrevated - setting timing
Guys where the h*** is the damn red mark that I'm supposed to use to tweak the timing?
I bought a timing light and it seems to do its job fine.
I removed the timing belt cover and turned on the car.
I can easily located the reference groove shaped like this:
-----
|_/\_|
But no matter where I look underneath it, I cannot find the white and/or red marks that are supposed to symbolize the timing & tdc marks (according to Hayne's)
I see another V groove above it that is supposed to tell you exactly which angle to look down but I cannot find any marks.
Maybe my crank pulley is a little dirty/rusty and whatever marks are supposed to be there are gone?
Some help please. Thanks guys..
I bought a timing light and it seems to do its job fine.
I removed the timing belt cover and turned on the car.
I can easily located the reference groove shaped like this:
-----
|_/\_|
But no matter where I look underneath it, I cannot find the white and/or red marks that are supposed to symbolize the timing & tdc marks (according to Hayne's)
I see another V groove above it that is supposed to tell you exactly which angle to look down but I cannot find any marks.
Maybe my crank pulley is a little dirty/rusty and whatever marks are supposed to be there are gone?
Some help please. Thanks guys..
17-Apr-2004, 02:38 PM
#3
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,881
those marks are usually gone within the first 2 years of driving the car (especially through winters)
just line up the groove with the little pointer thingy and timing is set
--V-- =position idicator
--V-- =groove on crank pulley
just line up the groove with the little pointer thingy and timing is set
--V-- =position idicator
--V-- =groove on crank pulley
17-Apr-2004, 02:40 PM
#4
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Posts: 611
But neither of them are moving. They are both stationary! Unless we're talking about different marks.
The idea is to have a stationary pointing mark to be compared with something fastened to the crank, no?
Man that grilled cheese looks so good, I gotta go make a couple.
The idea is to have a stationary pointing mark to be compared with something fastened to the crank, no?
Man that grilled cheese looks so good, I gotta go make a couple.
17-Apr-2004, 02:48 PM
#5
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Posts: 23,881
the engine has to be running...so the groove on the crank pully will match up with position indicator...and to make it easier take some white out and mark the groove on the crank pully so the timing light can pick it up easier
and then u adjust the distributor accordingly to advance/retard the timing
and then u adjust the distributor accordingly to advance/retard the timing
17-Apr-2004, 03:46 PM
#7
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Posts: 611
Originally posted by CyniKal.Mindset
the engine has to be running...so the groove on the crank pully will match up with position indicator...and to make it easier take some white out and mark the groove on the crank pully so the timing light can pick it up easier
and then u adjust the distributor accordingly to advance/retard the timing
the engine has to be running...so the groove on the crank pully will match up with position indicator...and to make it easier take some white out and mark the groove on the crank pully so the timing light can pick it up easier
and then u adjust the distributor accordingly to advance/retard the timing
Okay if there's a groove in there somewhere then I'll find it.
Everything is working perfectly, the ECM diag pins are shorted, the distributor is loosened, the timing light is aimed but I just can't find a good point of reference on the crank pulley.
If there's a groove in there somewhere, I'll use your idea with the whiteout and try to spot it.
Btw, what's a simple way to rotate the crank just a few degrees without using the starter so I can find the groove and mark it?
17-Apr-2004, 06:42 PM
#9
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Posts: 611
Let it be known that...
bevboyy has provided me with the best sounding exhaust system I have ever heard on a civic. High flow, low profile, and the price is practically free. If you're looking for some serious exhaust performance, look no further.
The folkes at JPG exhaust were impressed too.
I will record it tomorrow and put up some sample MP3's for your listening pleasures.
Thanks for the advice btw.
bevboyy has provided me with the best sounding exhaust system I have ever heard on a civic. High flow, low profile, and the price is practically free. If you're looking for some serious exhaust performance, look no further.
The folkes at JPG exhaust were impressed too.
I will record it tomorrow and put up some sample MP3's for your listening pleasures.
Thanks for the advice btw.
17-Apr-2004, 07:49 PM
#11
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 611
Of course I did.
Honestly, of all the things I have ever done to my car - from cleaning/replacing every fluid and filter known to man to replacing the entire ignition system and intake, the only thing that truly made a difference in power throughout the entire band was rebuilding the exhaust header to muffler. I gotta say, I love the muffler, very low profile quiet, sounds like a V6 at idle and low rpm.
Too bad I didn't make the installations separate so I can see exactly how much each item helps, regardless, the car is a quite rocket now. Much appreciated.
Exhaust labor, high flow cat and resonator all cost $600
Honestly, of all the things I have ever done to my car - from cleaning/replacing every fluid and filter known to man to replacing the entire ignition system and intake, the only thing that truly made a difference in power throughout the entire band was rebuilding the exhaust header to muffler. I gotta say, I love the muffler, very low profile quiet, sounds like a V6 at idle and low rpm.
Too bad I didn't make the installations separate so I can see exactly how much each item helps, regardless, the car is a quite rocket now. Much appreciated.
Exhaust labor, high flow cat and resonator all cost $600
JPG Exhaust
18-Apr-2004, 05:02 PM
#14
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 611
Final Update
I have finally fixed my problem and here are steps that helped me achieve that victory. Steps that I had to learn the hard way. I hope they will be helpful to newbies in the future:
1. A good distributor will have a gear that spins freely and easily. Any resistance is a sign of hardware malfunction or rust.
2. The distributor's gear on a civic will only fit one way - ie: there are not teeth on the gear AND the joint on the gear is slightly skewed so there is no chance of mounting it 180 degrees off.
3. The distributor will come from the factory pre-tuned to mesh with the engine perfectly. This means that the angle of the gear is perfectly synchronized with the timing on the rotor. When the distributor is mounted to the block (remember it only fits one way) and when the engine is at 12 degrees BDC, the rotor will be in full contact with the lead of cylinder 1. This eliminates the majority of tuning headaches.
4. A timing light is a MUST have when timing an engine. Canadian Tire sells their basic Inductive Timing Light for $49.99+tax. They are very easy to use (two aligator clips feed off the battery terminals and a third wire clips around the number one cylinder cable)
5. When mounting the distributor, you will have some play of roughly 15 degrees before to 15 degrees after TDC. Your timing light will tell you exactly where to mount it. On a perfectly tuned engine, the mounting position is roughly halfway on the sliding three bolts that fasten the distributor. You do NOT need to remove the timing belt cover (which usually means taking off the valve cover and taking the chance of easily overtorquing those flimsy screws and effectively ruining your day).
6. GOOD LUCK trying to find the White and Red marks that most manuals speak of. Here's what it SHOULD look like but like Cynikal said, those marks are history very quickly.
7. To rejuvenate those marks (which are absolutely necessary to perfect timing), jack the car on the front driver side then crawl underneath. Remove the front shourd covering the engine's bottom. This shroud extends throughout the whole frontend of the car and takes about 6 bolts to remove. Removing the bumper is not necessary as the two overlap each other but use different bolts. Once underneath, you should clearly be able to see a giant 18mm bolt holding the crank pulley . It is *surprisingly* easy to turn with a good socket ranch and very minimal effort. Rotate it slowly until you can clearly see the marks in the picture above appear from the bottom. Once they appear, use some white out or nail polish (something with a bright color and high contrast). Proceed to reinstall the shroud and bring down the car.
8. The marks should now be very obvious to spot with a timing light. Use them to adjust your timing. Rebolt your distributor one you are satisfied.
9. The second part of my annoyance was caused by the installation of new NGK copper plugs WHICH DO NOT COME PREGAPPED. Plugs need to be gapped at 0.044 inches which is exactly 1.1mm. This makes a huge difference. If you have your old plugs, use those as reference.
Once I retweaked my timing (which was off by a good 10 degrees) and regapped my plugs, I never once heard a ping or knock again.
I hope this helps a little.
1. A good distributor will have a gear that spins freely and easily. Any resistance is a sign of hardware malfunction or rust.
2. The distributor's gear on a civic will only fit one way - ie: there are not teeth on the gear AND the joint on the gear is slightly skewed so there is no chance of mounting it 180 degrees off.
3. The distributor will come from the factory pre-tuned to mesh with the engine perfectly. This means that the angle of the gear is perfectly synchronized with the timing on the rotor. When the distributor is mounted to the block (remember it only fits one way) and when the engine is at 12 degrees BDC, the rotor will be in full contact with the lead of cylinder 1. This eliminates the majority of tuning headaches.
4. A timing light is a MUST have when timing an engine. Canadian Tire sells their basic Inductive Timing Light for $49.99+tax. They are very easy to use (two aligator clips feed off the battery terminals and a third wire clips around the number one cylinder cable)
5. When mounting the distributor, you will have some play of roughly 15 degrees before to 15 degrees after TDC. Your timing light will tell you exactly where to mount it. On a perfectly tuned engine, the mounting position is roughly halfway on the sliding three bolts that fasten the distributor. You do NOT need to remove the timing belt cover (which usually means taking off the valve cover and taking the chance of easily overtorquing those flimsy screws and effectively ruining your day).
6. GOOD LUCK trying to find the White and Red marks that most manuals speak of. Here's what it SHOULD look like but like Cynikal said, those marks are history very quickly.
7. To rejuvenate those marks (which are absolutely necessary to perfect timing), jack the car on the front driver side then crawl underneath. Remove the front shourd covering the engine's bottom. This shroud extends throughout the whole frontend of the car and takes about 6 bolts to remove. Removing the bumper is not necessary as the two overlap each other but use different bolts. Once underneath, you should clearly be able to see a giant 18mm bolt holding the crank pulley . It is *surprisingly* easy to turn with a good socket ranch and very minimal effort. Rotate it slowly until you can clearly see the marks in the picture above appear from the bottom. Once they appear, use some white out or nail polish (something with a bright color and high contrast). Proceed to reinstall the shroud and bring down the car.
8. The marks should now be very obvious to spot with a timing light. Use them to adjust your timing. Rebolt your distributor one you are satisfied.
9. The second part of my annoyance was caused by the installation of new NGK copper plugs WHICH DO NOT COME PREGAPPED. Plugs need to be gapped at 0.044 inches which is exactly 1.1mm. This makes a huge difference. If you have your old plugs, use those as reference.
Once I retweaked my timing (which was off by a good 10 degrees) and regapped my plugs, I never once heard a ping or knock again.
I hope this helps a little.
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