AtallaMan

Hey everyone i just installed an Air Fuel gauge and after warm up the car is always lean. the only time i see Stoick is when the throttle is cracked hard but than the computer compencates and returns to lean. sometimes it's off the scale untill i blep the gas.

I am running a LS VTEC with the followling mods.

LS- block, crank, rods.
b16a- pistons, head, oil pump
Gsr- Cams

always run 94 octain with a boster on the side.

O2 sensor is one month old

timing is set @ 12 deg. BTDC

my Ecu has the following chips- Mugan, Spoon, Minds.
all 3 have the same outcome, TOO LEAN

Do i need a fuel pump?
Fuel rail?

Are the B16a's Injectors not keepong up?
Should i use b-20?

How can i richen up my combustion?

Hyper Duck Tuning says all of these chips should be running righ

I have checked other posts but all are running rich and want to run lean.

Pls help me out guys... i'd really appreacate the imput.

AtallaMan

can any one help?.... iam sure this site has educated people, just waiting to aid a fellow honda owner

ohmstable

prob your a/f gauge is no good.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

Well, are the Spoon Mugen and Minds chips for a B16 or a B18. That will make a big difference. If they are for a B18, then I recommend you go to a dyno, set your timing to factory specs for a GSR and begin tuning from there using a wideband O2. B16 and B20 injectors are the same - 240cc. Preludes have bigger (345cc) injectors, but you would need a resistor box to use them. Change your fuel filter, and make sure your pump is in good shape (pressure AND volume). Again... it could be a bunk gauge... but nothing beats real dyno time. It's too expensive an engine to risk. If the program is for a B16, that would explain a lot... then try finding a stock B18C5 program.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

^^^ fawk, good point!! read the plugs! how could that have slipped my mind?

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

also glazed (shiny) plugs indicate lean.... I find 'normal' or 'running well' are rusty colored dull ones.

b16civic, I think his narrow band A/F gauge told him it was lean.

dingus88

a/f guage isnt' very good it's probobly just a poo guage or the install wasnt' good....go buy a 400 dollar apexi vafc and go to a dyno so you don't blow your 5-7000 dollar setup you need to tune your setup you will probobly pic up a few whp 5-10 easy from vafc tuning..

check your plugs is key...it's old school but half decent if you know what to look for

AtallaMan

Hey everyone first i would like to thank you all for taking the time out of your busy days to help.

My Air fuel Gauge is 5 days old. I installed it my self and being a 3rd year auto tech, I hope to God i can do this properly. Now this doesnt mean the gauge isn't fuct BUT when a PR4 ECU is installed the gauge works perfectly bouncing happly in the STOICH range.

The car pulls great with a PR4 but i dont have VTEC and a 7000 rev limiter

here is a list of chips that i have from HDT

Mugen N1 program
VTEC: 5200rpm
Rev limit: None or 9000rpm
Dyno/Tests: Throttle response improved, good all around program, runs rather rich but good gains. Good on a LS/VTEC and B20VTEC. Second 02, oil pressure and knock sensor disabled.

Mines VX-ROM program
VTEC: 5200rpm
Rev limit: None
Dyno/Tests: Excellent for CTR/ITR cam combo, good power through out, little rich running.

Spoon program
VTEC: 5200rpm
Rev limit: 8700rpm
Dyno/Tests: Runs well, good all around, conservative, street program.

Real dyno testing w/ widband will be done bye the end of the week. i will post all results with different chips, ecu's, Timing ect

My plugs ar a little on the white side. The CAT is also getting WAY TOO HOT and has started to pulg due to melting
These are also signs of a Lean combustion.

Any Retorts?

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

I stand by what I said, check fuel pressure and volume at the rail. Maybe you have a pinched line or something. Or a dirty fuel filter. Again, the programs could be for B16 or B18 engines... check that as well.

AtallaMan

Well everyone my dyno day wasn't what i had expected.
First i had to pull my Manifold to remove my 2nd o2 sensor to allow for the wideband o2 to be installed.

First the PR4 (ran rich and lost power around 5500rpm)
106.5 MAX TORQUE 103.7 MAX POWER
I'll try to post the graph

AtallaMan

I tryed running the PR3 but the guy looking at the Wideband told my to shut my car down by around 4000 RMP in 4th gear. My car was Extreamly lean. the air fuel mix was 19.9 :1
All Chips resulted in the same outcome....didn't even reach VTEC in any runs.

Now i'm thinking i have ECU problems cuz the PR4 is TOO RIch so the fuel to supply a 1.8l is present, but for some reason the PR3 isn't allowing the fuel to reach the combustion chamber. The tuner recomended a Fuel Pressure regulater but warned that it would be really rich at low rpm. Raising fuel pressure changes the whole power band.

My ECU tuner just got married today so i think an going to wait till he stops crying and the honeymoon befor bothering him with my problems.

Mabey i just got a bum ECU from Japan

Any comments?

AtallaMan

Is there any way to test pinouts @ the ecu ? Resistance check?

KAMUFI

damn man this is getting to complicated, you have to start with the basics and use a process of elemination to figure this out.

First start with proper stock ecu for car and engine.
fuel pressure is to be around 42-46 psi VACUUM ON regulator.
(make sure regulator is good just use a stock one for now)

Set timing average is about 14-16 BTDC.

Make sure you have at least GS-R or equivilant fuel pump.

Then work from there.

i say screw the modded chips and get a hondata then get it dyno tuned properly and specific to your car.

Your ECU is sometimes putting out rich readings,