EF Civic 4 Bolt to 5 Bolt, HELP
18-Mar-2006, 02:23 AM
#1
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: T.O.
Posts: 599
EF Civic 4 Bolt to 5 Bolt, HELP
I wanna know what I would need to convert from my 4 bolt to 5 bolt? Like what parts would I need cause I really want to do it soon
Ohhh and also I just recieved the front LCA bushings for my civic and was gonna bring it to my mechanic to install them today (SAT) but now I wanna know if I can use the same LCA's cause no sense paying him to install it then when I do go 5 bolt they are useless
When I do it, do I need to change the LCA??? Thats my main worry
Ohhh and also I just recieved the front LCA bushings for my civic and was gonna bring it to my mechanic to install them today (SAT) but now I wanna know if I can use the same LCA's cause no sense paying him to install it then when I do go 5 bolt they are useless
When I do it, do I need to change the LCA??? Thats my main worry
24-Mar-2006, 01:32 AM
#4
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 2,739
Im gonna have to agree somewhat, most people either do the swap for the big brakes and suspension or for the "jdm bling" factor. If your doing it for the suspension and brakes my advice to you is do some research on sites like honda tech and you will quickly learn that there is plenty of options out there for aftermarket suspension systems that will easily outperform the ITR suspension and they are direct bolt ins. And as far as the brakes go you can jam some fairly large front brakes on that car without even changing the spindles to EX units, look into the Accord wagon front brake swap for that car on HT.
28-Mar-2006, 04:11 PM
#10
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Moon
Posts: 8,921
The Three-Line Explanation :
- The rear bolts up.
- Machine the itr hubs to fit the DA/EF bearings.
- If you have an EF, use civic EX (4 door) or Si-R knuckles.
Not good enough? Then keep reading...
NOTE: Stock ITR wheels are 15x6 +50 offset, while GS-R wheels are 15x6 +45 offset. This is because the ITR hubs push the track out 5mm on all four corners. If you're not using the stock ITR wheels, make sure the spokes will clear the front calipers. Lower offset doesn't necessarily mean it will clear (spoke design is a much bigger factor). Prices on used car parts vary dramatically. EF owners... figure out whatever axle spline issues you're going to have before you get started.
This part of the install is quite literally a bolt on process. The e-brake cables from the Type R are unnecessary if you have a DA. If you have an EF with drums in the rear, you will need some form of Integra cables. When you switch over the trailing arms, just undo the cables and reattach to the new arms. If you look under your trailing arms on the car, there are two bolts underneath the arm on each side holding it to the chassis. There is also another bolt that holds the compensator arm to the chassis. After undoing these, only the rear upper and lower control arms and the brake lines are holding it onto the car. It's still questionable whether or not you can use your stock brake lines on all four corners... if you can, make sure your 5 lug comes with the brake lines. The ITR ones work fine (great, even). After comparing, the ITR rear upper control arms appeared to be the exact same dimensions as the DA one. If your setup came with the ITR ones, use them. Newer bushings are good.
Special Note: I've probably been asked this same question more than a dozen times... "Don't I HAVE to use the ITR springs/shocks and control arms?" NO! For the love of poo, just use your current springs, shocks and rear LCA's! They bolt onto the ITR trailing arm just fine! Please don't ask this question anymore!
Extra Note: The geometry of the actual physical ITR trailing arm does differ from the DA one slightly, but ultimately, all the bolt holes line up perfectly with the chassis and after the much needed wheel alignment that follows this conversion, the geometry difference will not be an issue.
This is where the 5 lug conversion ceases to be a bolt-on procedure, but rest assured, if done properly, your conversion will have OEM fit and quality.
Hydro Presses Are Fun: Ultimately, you will need to wind up with hubless DA/EF(Si-R/EX) knuckles and bare ITR hubs. Take all your junk down to the machine shop and have them press all the hubs and bearings out of whatever knuckles you have. Don't throw anything away quite yet.
NOTE: for DA Owners: If you can, try to get yourself a spare pair of DA knuckles instead of reusing the ones on your car. First of all, people seem to just be giving these away and secondly, you'd be minimizing the amount of downtime your car has. Also, depending on how you do it, you might only need to make one trip to the machine shop.
While the hubs and bearings are out of the DA/EF(Si-R/EX) knuckles, now's the time to decide what to do with the dust/splash shields. You can either cut your stock ones, move over the ITR ones (the screw holes line up perfectly), or just leave them off altogether. Any of these are fine. In the second picture, note the offset difference between the two hubs.
SHAVE THOSE HUBS:
Before you do this, it's important to know why you have to do this. The DA/EF(Si-R/EX) wheel bearings have a different inner and outer diameter than the DC/EG/EK (and ITR) wheel bearings, which means the shaft of the hub is of a different diameter as well. This is why you can't just press out the DA/EF(Si-R/EX) hubs and press in the ITR ones.
This is the tried and true method. What I did was bring my old DA hubs, new and old DA bearings, and ITR hubs to the machine shop. They spec'ed the diameter of the shaft of the DA hub and put my ITR hubs on a crank grinder to be machined down to the appropriate size. I can't remember the exact figure, but they took off somewhere around 3mm off the diameter of the shaft of the ITR hubs. Despite what I say, you or the machine shop should measure your bearings/hubs.
A fter this, have the new pair of DA/EF(Si-R/EX) wheel bearings pressed into your DA/EF(Si-R/EX) knuckles. Then have your newly machined ITR hubs pressed into these said bearings. Here's the part number for the DA bearings (trivia: same part number for late 80's Prelude).
MOUNTING THE KNUCKLES:
Begin by removing your old knuckles. On each side, remove the axle nut (having an air gun makes this quite a bit easier). After that, undo the brake line from the chassis hardline and catch all the dripping brake fluid. Next, remove the 3 cotter pins and castle nuts to separate the 3 ball joints (one for each control arm and one for the tie rod). The knuckle should then be free from the car.
Installing your new 5 lug knuckles is the exact reverse of removal. Make sure you use your stock DA/EF upper and lower control arms.
RUN-OUT TEST:
If you look at your FSM, you'll see the runout spec for the hubs is 0.002". What this means is that when you spin the hub, the surface of the hub should remain nearly perfectly flat. If your bearing is bad or the machining is off, the surface of the hub will wobble and cause premature wear/warpage of the rotors. What you do is set up a dial gauge and mount it to your knuckle. The needle should not move anymore than 0.002".
PROPORTIONING:
EF owners... get yourself a 4040 proportioning valve from a wrecked DA to gain the proper front/rear brake biasing. DA owners... rejoice. You're done! Bleed the hell out of your brake system as specified by the FSM and go for a test drive (go slow... it'd be a shame to find out your brakes don't work when you're driving 55+mph).
- The rear bolts up.
- Machine the itr hubs to fit the DA/EF bearings.
- If you have an EF, use civic EX (4 door) or Si-R knuckles.
Not good enough? Then keep reading...
NOTE: Stock ITR wheels are 15x6 +50 offset, while GS-R wheels are 15x6 +45 offset. This is because the ITR hubs push the track out 5mm on all four corners. If you're not using the stock ITR wheels, make sure the spokes will clear the front calipers. Lower offset doesn't necessarily mean it will clear (spoke design is a much bigger factor). Prices on used car parts vary dramatically. EF owners... figure out whatever axle spline issues you're going to have before you get started.
This part of the install is quite literally a bolt on process. The e-brake cables from the Type R are unnecessary if you have a DA. If you have an EF with drums in the rear, you will need some form of Integra cables. When you switch over the trailing arms, just undo the cables and reattach to the new arms. If you look under your trailing arms on the car, there are two bolts underneath the arm on each side holding it to the chassis. There is also another bolt that holds the compensator arm to the chassis. After undoing these, only the rear upper and lower control arms and the brake lines are holding it onto the car. It's still questionable whether or not you can use your stock brake lines on all four corners... if you can, make sure your 5 lug comes with the brake lines. The ITR ones work fine (great, even). After comparing, the ITR rear upper control arms appeared to be the exact same dimensions as the DA one. If your setup came with the ITR ones, use them. Newer bushings are good.
Special Note: I've probably been asked this same question more than a dozen times... "Don't I HAVE to use the ITR springs/shocks and control arms?" NO! For the love of poo, just use your current springs, shocks and rear LCA's! They bolt onto the ITR trailing arm just fine! Please don't ask this question anymore!
Extra Note: The geometry of the actual physical ITR trailing arm does differ from the DA one slightly, but ultimately, all the bolt holes line up perfectly with the chassis and after the much needed wheel alignment that follows this conversion, the geometry difference will not be an issue.
This is where the 5 lug conversion ceases to be a bolt-on procedure, but rest assured, if done properly, your conversion will have OEM fit and quality.
Hydro Presses Are Fun: Ultimately, you will need to wind up with hubless DA/EF(Si-R/EX) knuckles and bare ITR hubs. Take all your junk down to the machine shop and have them press all the hubs and bearings out of whatever knuckles you have. Don't throw anything away quite yet.
NOTE: for DA Owners: If you can, try to get yourself a spare pair of DA knuckles instead of reusing the ones on your car. First of all, people seem to just be giving these away and secondly, you'd be minimizing the amount of downtime your car has. Also, depending on how you do it, you might only need to make one trip to the machine shop.
While the hubs and bearings are out of the DA/EF(Si-R/EX) knuckles, now's the time to decide what to do with the dust/splash shields. You can either cut your stock ones, move over the ITR ones (the screw holes line up perfectly), or just leave them off altogether. Any of these are fine. In the second picture, note the offset difference between the two hubs.
SHAVE THOSE HUBS:
Before you do this, it's important to know why you have to do this. The DA/EF(Si-R/EX) wheel bearings have a different inner and outer diameter than the DC/EG/EK (and ITR) wheel bearings, which means the shaft of the hub is of a different diameter as well. This is why you can't just press out the DA/EF(Si-R/EX) hubs and press in the ITR ones.
This is the tried and true method. What I did was bring my old DA hubs, new and old DA bearings, and ITR hubs to the machine shop. They spec'ed the diameter of the shaft of the DA hub and put my ITR hubs on a crank grinder to be machined down to the appropriate size. I can't remember the exact figure, but they took off somewhere around 3mm off the diameter of the shaft of the ITR hubs. Despite what I say, you or the machine shop should measure your bearings/hubs.
A fter this, have the new pair of DA/EF(Si-R/EX) wheel bearings pressed into your DA/EF(Si-R/EX) knuckles. Then have your newly machined ITR hubs pressed into these said bearings. Here's the part number for the DA bearings (trivia: same part number for late 80's Prelude).
MOUNTING THE KNUCKLES:
Begin by removing your old knuckles. On each side, remove the axle nut (having an air gun makes this quite a bit easier). After that, undo the brake line from the chassis hardline and catch all the dripping brake fluid. Next, remove the 3 cotter pins and castle nuts to separate the 3 ball joints (one for each control arm and one for the tie rod). The knuckle should then be free from the car.
Installing your new 5 lug knuckles is the exact reverse of removal. Make sure you use your stock DA/EF upper and lower control arms.
RUN-OUT TEST:
If you look at your FSM, you'll see the runout spec for the hubs is 0.002". What this means is that when you spin the hub, the surface of the hub should remain nearly perfectly flat. If your bearing is bad or the machining is off, the surface of the hub will wobble and cause premature wear/warpage of the rotors. What you do is set up a dial gauge and mount it to your knuckle. The needle should not move anymore than 0.002".
PROPORTIONING:
EF owners... get yourself a 4040 proportioning valve from a wrecked DA to gain the proper front/rear brake biasing. DA owners... rejoice. You're done! Bleed the hell out of your brake system as specified by the FSM and go for a test drive (go slow... it'd be a shame to find out your brakes don't work when you're driving 55+mph).
14-Apr-2006, 04:27 PM
#12
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Somewhere out there...
Posts: 4,606
Originally posted by 91Civic_Joe
I dont wanna go Big brake. I have the Teins put on and I just want to use it to put on gunmetal rsx rims with low pro tires. That is the main reason
I dont wanna go Big brake. I have the Teins put on and I just want to use it to put on gunmetal rsx rims with low pro tires. That is the main reason
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