imported_mikepasini

i have a turbo sitting in my room getting installed in roughly two weeks and this pretty good deal has come around for some ctr cams... dual valve springs and titanium retainers. i am torn between the two because i always wanted to put that kind of setup in but now i am curious to know how well it would work with my turbo... the cams if anything will be installed first and i need to know how much tuning is neded for a b18c1.. i have been told tey are designed to reline at 9200... anyone know where they nake power to and how safe it would be reving on a b18c1 and what kind of gains i will get of those installed?

i am thinking that if they will work well and i need a full tune for like 3hrs with the cams then i can just get t done ater i get the turbo installed so i can get the full tune done with the cams in and the turbo at the same time.

any info qould be greatly appreciated. thanks.

-mike

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

don't waste your money.
If you want more power, turn up the boost.
CTR cams are a decent upgrade, but completely unnecessary on a boosted setup. I wouldn't waste your time/money installing CTR valve springs and retainers. If you are going to change them get something better, something that can handle more than just CTR cams.
I would invest some money into adjustable cam gears before changing the cams/valvetrain, especially on a boosted setup. If you really wanna get cams, get some turbo cams, they're designed to work the best with a turbo.

imported_SilverSleeper

I disagree.

"Typical turbo cams have high lift, lower duration. This doesnt work well with honda engines. They like to make peak VE at higher rpms, and using a cam like this will ultimately limit the amount of scavenging that occurs in the higher rpm level. With a high lift, low duration turbo cam you'll make alot of midrange gain, but the top end will drop off since the engine wont be able to breath through the reduction in total valve time open (duration). One customer had a set of Crower turbo cams, he losted nearly 40whp at high boost compared to a pair of OEM b16a ones. OEM gsr and itr are really good at making high rpm whp that honda engines are known for." - Geoff Evans (Evans Tuning)

Turbo + Cams

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

i think you mean....boosted hybrid disagrees.

I know people that have had good sucess with turbo cams in there boosted b-series, but i also know people that have had good sucess with even as big as stage 2 (n/a) cams in a boosted setup.

So given your immense experience with turbos what would you suggest silversleeper?

IMO, spending money on cams on a boosted setup is a step in the wrong direction. Spend that money on some forged internals on the bottom end to handle more boost. Or a bigger exhaust, bigger injectors, better clutch, better tires....etc etc.

imported_mikepasini

after reading that lnk it seems that they recommend using ctr/itrs over say a stock gsr cam because of the overlap that helps push out the bad exhaust gases with all the pressure in the exhaust amnifold.. i am not too sure of what this means.. also... they were saying it should move my torque curve up a little.. how safe would it be revving to 8.5-9.0 k at 7psi...

i was just thinking that having a wider powerband to work with migt benefit me so i can ake more torque a littlelonger a up higher...

and i believe its titanium retainrs and dual valve springs.. to go along with the ctr cams

imported_mikepasini

also... stuff like forged internals for the bottom end will happen but next year after winter... this is a definite so comparng cams and etc to doing stuff to the bottom end would be hard for me to do... the cams i can do and afford this year and the bottom end will be next year. so if doing the cams with the turbo install would benefit me... then how cool would it be boosting at 9000rpm?

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

well there is so much more that you have to take into consideration than just which cams you are using.
Will your turbo be efficient at that rpm range?
Will you have big enough injectors/strong enough of a fuel pump?

Find out which brand retainers and valve springs, b/c CTR valve springs are dual on both the intake and exhaust from the factory.

Building a stout bottom end costs lots of money, so save up now. The gains you would get for the CTR cams, for the amount of money you would spend, you could put that towards the bottom end and it would be more worth it in the long run. If you have to pay someone else to do the work, the bang for buck really drops on a cam swap on a boosted car IMO.

I would say ITR/CTR cams would be your best bet in terms of stock cams for a turbo car. But you don't want too much overlap on a boosted engine b/c having the exhaust valve open along with the intake valve will allow the boost to escape.

There are so many other things to worry about other than cams when going boost, just ask anyone who's actually had a boosted car.

chris_si98

man.. you shouldnt even be worrying about cams at this stage. Do you even have your turbo kit all planned out and purchased?

imported_SilverSleeper

I never stated that I had an immense knowledge turbos. but FYI my knowledge of turbocharging stems from diesels rather than gasoline engines.

Boosted hybrid is Geoff Evans as far as I know. His tuning I would arguing is far better than yours or mine. The kinds of cars he has tuned is impressive and vast. I think with such a topic as this, the opinion of such a man has a good deal of weight. All I've done is brought it too this particular discussion. Sorry that you disagree with him but his resume shows that he can back up what he means.

Can you?

chris_si98

who's geoff evans?

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

i don't know....i know who Jeff Evans is though.

Where did he post his resumee?

From my personal experiences turbo cams aren't that bad, and have had good sucess with them. Along with a few friends of mine.
I mostly have experience tuning all sorts of different built, stock, crazily built turbo b-series and d-series and n/a.....hows about yourself?

imported_SilverSleeper

My knowledge or tuning has nothing to do with this, that's getting off track from the issue. I merely pitted your wealth of tuning experience versus his. Your trying to discredit the wrong person.

You stated that turbo cams are designed to work best with turbocharged engine. "Best" I take it refers as to what would make the most power. What I have read from the Evans tuning website runs against what you said. There is evidence that what he says is correct. You have offered no facts to back up your original claims, it is as of now just bs.

Simple as that.

imported_mikepasini

did you read anything i wrote above or are you just making random comments. I DO have a turbo kit already purchased and sitting at home waiting to go in. It is a complete kit (CT26/internally gated at 7psi/Turbosmart BOV/front mount int/440 injectors/pre-fabbed charge piping and down pipe for a b18c1 in an ek) and i am just waiting on someone for the install and tuning. I believe if all works out Weirtech is going to do my install and if zeeman has time i previously discussed getting it tuned by him. I am getting it installed sometime around Sept 14th or so if the person doing my install is available then and if i can get zeeman right after for tuninig.

for now, i was thinking that the 7psi of boost I will be getting would just be fun to rev up to 9K for the next year and then over the winter I will get the motor done and ready for when the snow goes away!!!

AND...


the only reason guys i am asking cam questions is because there is a set of CTR cams/dual valve springs/titanium retainers for sale for $450... and i thought it was a good deal. Otherwise the cams weren't even my concern. I was just thinking if its a good deal i may as well take it and if they would benefit me then it would be worth it. I was thinking of putting the cams in and getting the turbo installed at the same time and getting them both tuned rather than one and then the other again a week later.

i didn't even plan on buying cams otherwise, i was just going with forged internals next year (forged pistons/rods, ARP head bolts/rod bolts mainly and whatever is suggested i do...) Ideally by the same time next year I would be pleased with 15psi on my motor.

chris_si98

you said you have a turbo not a full kit. relax.


edit: i took out the crap i said

imported_mikepasini

fine... if you want to call me on a technicality... you win... i did say turbo... i meant kit...

and , i was just saying... no tension...

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

So you disagree with my first comment, yet have absolutely no FIRST HAND experience with the issue....i believe people like you are called google mechanics.

What i should have said, is that i found turbo cams to work best, from my experience....but i'm not jeff evans, and can't even try to compare myself to him, nor have i tried to say that i was better or knew more than him.

Simple as that.

I love when people that have no experience with the specific issue post, especially when they post up stuff that they've googled and don't even really understand what it means.

I'm done with this thread b/c its gone to **** and mike has got his answer.

chris_si98

andrew..

mcChicken's?

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

yes please

imported_mikepasini

^^^^^^^^^^thanks zeeman.

i sent you a pm as well about the tuning.

imported_SilverSleeper

I just love how you as well talk out of your *** and offer nothing to back it up.

You just annoyed because someone called you on something said. I admit you post in this section more than I and people listen to you b/c of that. But it doesn't neccessarily mean that you know more than me nor does it mean that you can insult me because I've challenged your opinion.

I'm done with this thread as well. If you've got anything else to say, PM me and we'll clear up this argument you've started.