andyandy

Hi everyone, my name is Andres.

Its my first time in this forum, and I want to congratulate you all for your club.

I see that a lot of you know a lot about modifications and their real power gain and secundary problems.

I´m thinking in replacing my stock cam shafts, but I don´t know if they realy increase torque and power.

Does this modificacion is usefull to gain power or not? I heard tha the skunk2 cam shafts give you a 20hp gain.


All your coments will help, thank you very much!!

crvtecEG

well, while choosing a set of cams a few things need to be considered. Compression is very important, you don't wanna run a stage 3 cam on stock compression. Powerband, where do you wanna make the most power gains....top end, midrange? Do you want to replace the valve springs and retainers? This is required when using anything more than a stage 1 cam since stage 2+ cams have a higher lift and longer duration and if stock valve springs are used valve float is very likely to occur.

andyandy

thats very interesting.

I´m thinking in a stage 1, but I don´t know if the power gain is worth for the money you pay.

With a stage 1, do you feel a good change? or its is not worth for the money you pay

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

cams are a good way to make power. however, there are many other things you can do in search of power. once you have completed all the bolt ons, then you can proceed with internal mods. and I recommend upgrading the whole head (cams, springs, retainers, porting/polishing, and maybe a lil milling). For cams, you might wanna look into some OEM CTR cams? also, your intake manifold should be ported or extrude honed at the same time. Or look into some individual throttle bodies?

crvtecEG

Bruno makes some excellent points.
About skunk 2 cams giving you 20 more hp, that could be true b/c say your stock cams made 75 whp @4800rpm's and the skunk 2's make 95 whp @4800rpm's that statement would be completely true. But i don't think skunk 2 cams alone would make 20 peak hp over stock. Maybe in combination of things bruno listed above (bolt on's, headwork, up the compression)
As for s2 stage 1s being worth the money, i doubt it. Maybe if you can get them used for cheap, but otherwise if you just wanna swap the cams and not the valve springs and retainers i'd go with what bruno said and just get some CTR/ITR's and some adjustable cam gears, even with those cams raising the compression would help those cams really shine.
Whatever route you choose don't forget about tuning. You will need to tune your car after changing the cams, whether it be with a custom chip, hondata, vafc.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

ya 20 hp is a lil enthusiastic. don't forget, this engine already makes a very healthy 100 hp per liter and get 35 mpg. most cars can't make this claim. you can make SOME gains... but to see that 20 hp you're gonna want some other mods to go with your cams. if cams alone could give you 20 hp, don't you think honda would have put these cams in and rate their engine at 180 hp? think about that for a second.

LEITNER

compression compression compression. after all the bolt on shi* raise your compression and get some crower stg 2 cams and springs/retainers. as much as i love the b16 you can never really get high compression because of the short stroke, about11.5:1 is i think as high as you can get without using mt everest domes on the pistons.

Double_B

crvtecEG

Steve:
Do you think that 11.5:1 CR is a sufficient CR for stage 2's? What do you think that the lowest CR should be while using stg2's on a b16?....b20?

LEITNER

11:1 is min

andyandy

I agree with you.

So, would you recomend this modificacion o not? Would you do it on your car?

thank you all for your answers.

LEITNER

go buy a ctr intake cam and run it. you will notice a nice difference in the top end.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

would I personally do it if I had an SiR??? prolly not. unless I wanted to be baller just so I could say I got cams. for the gain to cost ratio, I'd have to say screw normal aspiration. esp considering I don't race, and the fact I prolly woulnd't rev my engine that high often enough to really justify spending that money.

the way I see it, go big ONCE on the engine. pull it out and do something really wild. stroke it to 2.0 liters and build it fully. or turbocharge it.... or Vortech supercharge it.

you could spend $3000 in bolt ons, and you'll get maybe 25-30 whp when tuned. or you could spend $5000 on a supercharger and double your power.

or you could drive a stock B16A2 engine and be sitting on a stack of 30 $100 bills.

Chigga1

see the way i see it is, is going all out all motor is by far the best!

for sure BOOSTED guys will get gains from Forced injduction.
but for all motor every lil bit counts, if it means Port and polish,
knife edging your Crank, new cams, retainers, bigger throttle body or a quad setup like Bruno mentioned intake manifold, even slapping the the ITR Int. mani on the B16 would be good, you would sacrifice in mid range but gain top end, pullies, you name it everything thats needed...

i like the all motor route myself, but boost just got the best of me $$$$$ to horsepower wise!!!

yeah all motor rules!

8.5K

.....is not nearly as important as a very good and efficient set up. its part of the equation, but, definatley not the sole difference maker. i've recently seen an oem b16 longblock (10.2/1 c.r.) make 189whp on a dynojet with Jun 3's, Jun header, p&p (no milling) itr im, 64mm t/b, no cat, 2.5" exhaust and Hondata tuning. mind you, it peaked at or slightly over 9K. this is a very rare case, but, its all about the proper set-up and tuning. yes, higher compression will yield gains throughout the powerband, but, so will a very well designed header. there are people making 210whp on 81.5mm bore b18c's with nothing more than bolts ons, slightly higher c.r., good cams, im & well designed header. not trying to flame, just st8ing facts. g/l with the project.


Edit: oh yeah, to answer the question i'd agree with those that said 00' ITR/CTR cams. they make very good midrange power and the top end power is decent for what it is. i'd personally change the flywheel first, but, that's me.

LEITNER

with out compression you dont get the vacumn necessary to utilize the cams. this is world experience i dont just pull this out of my as*. this is physics not fairy land. the engine needs compression to make big cams work.

case and point 9k rpm to get that number (the engine was finally able to keep up with the cams) what was the torque like? nothing probably especialy if the compression is 10.2:1. and he had everything for top end. it looks like you have a bit of knowledge dont let it go to your head and make you answer questions wrong. i have done this for YEARS as a profession and have a good rep as a builder of fast engines....i know what i am saying.

crvtecEG

i think what 8.5K is saying is that without the rest of the setup (intake manifold, throttle body, header, exhaust, etc etc) raising the compression won't yeild as much of a gain as it would with the rest of the bolt-ons, especially the right combination of bolt on's. I mean you wouldn't put a JG victorX IM and 70mm t/b on a mild compression NA b16....right?
He is not saying that compression isn't important he is just saying that it is an essential component of a naturally aspiriated small displacement engine, as is your choice in t/b size, or what engine management to run or which header to use.

Just b/c 8.5K hasn't been working in a machine shop for however long you (steve) have doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about. I know you guys have your personal issues but you always seem to rag on his posts.

andyandy:
I would start with the bolt on's, header, exhaust, intake, intake manifold, throttle body but keep in mind what cams you want to use and what CR you plan to run b/c that will save you from buying something twice and wasting money on parts that you will change after changing something else....take it from me who has learned this the hard way.
I put a milled, pnp'd, valve job'd head on with beefier cams, valve springs, retainers, cam gears but used the stock t/b, stock IM, crappy dc 4-1 header to a stock cat and 2.25" exhaust .... sure i saw decent gains (on a b16) but no where near as good as after i put on a 64mm t/b, better IM, fakedata IM gasket, way better header to a high flow cat and 2.5" exhaust.
So, moral of the story is, it takes more than just buying random components to build a reliable, powerful, high revving N/A engine. It takes time, research, the right combination of parts that will work well together, and a good machinist....which i am sure you are steve.

LEITNER

i always assume that someone looking into internals has done all the basic stuff. why else would he be in to getting cams? as i stated before big cams require high compression to work properly other wise you get gutless high reving engines.