imported_loudsubz

yeah good read dingus, im learning something all the time

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

yeah, I too learned something... that dingus is a dumbass.

dingus, you fail to consider that this is a STREET car that is NOT used for endurance racing, and as such should not see 8200 regularly... furthermore it's a DAILY DRIVER.

when recommending something to ppl, instead of just blabbing on about how great they are, you need to stop and consider their use. I may think that turbos are the best thing out there, but the fact is they are not for everybody. You may think CTR cams are the ****, but I don't think they would be in this application. And I didn't say to build HIS bottom end, I said to build a larger displacement block and slip it under his current setup. He'd see a great increase in both torque and horsepower across the board, making his car a lot more fun to drive on the street. So cams give you a peak avg of say 7 hp at 8000 rpm - big ******* whoop, that'll never come in handy when you NEED it... he needs torque when he's in a lane that's about to end, he's in 4th gear at 60 kms/h he's got a big mac in one hand, and a cell phone in the other... he needs to stomp on the pedal and be able to merge into the other lane w/o dropping his big mac. THAT is what real street driveability is about.

imported_sketch

wouldn't it be relatively expensive to replace the bottom end ?
is there any re-building involved or can I just slip a b18/b20 block under a b16 head ?

thanks

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

helpful thread here -> see link within (thanks to the ever so helpful loudsubz)

dingus8

ctr cams will bump the entire power band up...they keep your mid range and bottom as stated by me earlier that is why they are a nice upgrade over stage 1's that will just boost your top end.....with good tuning that is...and they are nto race cams they are oem buddy you can run them on stock valve train rev permitting....gsr cams are even less aggressive they will give very moderate gains...for a b16a1 they woudl be a nice idea cause they have the least aggressive cams (typical first generation of anything)...the only other solution woudl be I guess in your opinion to put a b18c5 bottom on...but then you will be needign those cmas anyway so.....your not entirely on base here...I dont' think they are "the ****" they are jsut a great oem reliable upgrade that will give 10ish whp and keep yoru mid and bottom power.....and you can find them used for cheap.....we are talkgin 700 bux rather 3000 for a rebuild "bigger displacement motor" if you mean a ls vtec or crvtec they are bad news and not worth it so drop that idea

punkindrublic

if properly built and machined an ls/vtec and more importantly a b20 vtec can be someof the best honda motors... i had a site that built a b20 vtec which made 280hp at 9500 rpm all motor.... which is 2.0L matching the nsx

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

worst $700 bucks ever spent, what little power you make you will get used to very quickly, so it won't even feel like you gained anything after like two weeks. The gains are not dramatic enough to satisfy a man for a long time, and if you have better things to do with your $700, you'll be kicking yourself in the ***. They do make power, but not enough power for the street to be able to justify the cost.

I know CTR is an OEM cam but the rev range of the Japanese B16B is outside of the parameters of the B16A1/2/3 and besides that, unless you have the CTR ECU... you are really pissin in the wind. There are many reasons why I say what I say... what you end up doing is up to you entirely. I say if you save the money and do a REAL buildup, you'll end up being happier in the long run, having a fresh, reliable, torquey motor.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

last thing to add to this discussion:

Atomig EG, ever drive a 6th gen DX and Si models??? One has 106 hp, the other 127 hp... first two gears around the city feel absolutely the same... know why? Cuz the torque on both is the same. Well, all B16s suffer from the same problem, they top out at like 111 lb-ft of torque, and that's just ***. In other gears the tranny gearing makes a slight difference, but I do suggest you drive and compare the two. That's 21 extra hp, and almost no difference in how they drive... consider that when you wanna spend $700 on 5 extra hp!

imported_loudsubz

ohhh god stop arguing and get along.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

not arguing; presenting alternatives I always believe in a complete build over a piecemeal solution. CTR cams in a B16A do not instantly make it a B16B

do one motor, do it right and don't touch it again till you have a fresh build sheet for another motor.

crazyhatchback

bbarbulo gots a point with the si dx thing i have a dx my best bud has an si feels exactly the same and theres a 20hp diff only felt in 3rd gear which is mostly cause of the better tranny

dingus8

oh god this is a waste of time ctr cmas = good upgrade...and you dont' need the ctr ecu...it's callled a afc (which is better) or a chip....and outta the rev range eh...they rev to 8600 fuel cut......so how is that "outta" it's range most of the time peoepl jsut opt for the itr valve train to rev it slightly higher anyway....and honda motors make power from revs so......a built 280 hp crvtec will be atleast 5000-7000 dollars easy...probobly way more seeign how jun 3's and the correspondign valve train woudl cost 2000-3000 anyway...and that was edyne site......and they were turnign 9500 -9800 rpm's...that motor woudl nto be reliable enough for the street it's a dyno queen.....seeign hwo it blew up on the dyno ....and I'm talkign 7-10 whp here guy's....you dotn' go fast by short shiftign a honda anyway's. This tread has to many dreamers and magazine racers (site in general). remember it all cost's money to go fast which is why most go slow...a bult ls/vtec that won't genade = 3000-5000 a turbo setup for a b16 = 3000-4000 easy if not more depending on how good it is.......ctr cams = good...then you can get ctr pistons then a itr mani....then maybe go for soem toda c's or b's

punkindrublic

to comment on the dx/si thing... i had my stock tranny 93 Si and now i have a 99 dx tranny and the gearing in all gear is way longer.... and hence the car is slow as hell now.... well slower anyways.... but i get great millage now

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

I know this all too well, which is why I said it's better to build a good street motor than to put up with an engine developed for the endurance racing circuit.

B16 has it's place, and it's not on the streets or the drag racing circuit.

ctr cams = good...then you can get ctr pistons then a itr mani....then maybe go for soem toda c's or b's <--- these parts cost money too you know... what I'm saying modding a B16 heavily starts to run out of the fun per dollar range real fast! That's all I'm saying... most enthusiast spend money cuz it returns a high fun per dollar value. This is not the case with a B16 because it only has 1594 ccs of displacement!

punkindrublic

you said the b16b is built for the endurance racing series right?? does that basically just mean that motor is more resiliant to failure when reving high for constant periods of time??

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

yes, the N1 circuit racing in Japan is HUGE, kinda like NASCAR here... so Japanese companies build cars that are competitive there, cuz the "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday" philosophy applies there as well.

punkindrublic

understandably so.... i wish they televised N1 racing and such over here.... cause you dont win friends watch nascar

dingus8

dude the b16b is not a "race motor" those n1 motors have like 250-260 hp to the wheels....juns car had 260 ish last tiem I checked (a year ago) and had huge compression and crazy cams....ctr cams in a b16 is still a good mod so I dont' understand what you are saying....a b16 is still a good platform to mod....might nto be a 250 whp monster 10 0000 prm machine but ctr cams woudl make the power band more healthy...and b16 with ctr's and bolt ons in a 5th gen hatch will run mid 14's with good tires and a good driver and on the road course would fare well. Not everyone can have a sleeved b20 vtec with rods pistons and jun 3's ....b16 is a nice high reving reliable motor, and the question was were the cams good for his setup so clearly he isnt' thinking abotu buildign up a b18c on the side he is just thinking about addign some "kick" to his current setup.....and about the toda cams that was just ideas on where he coudl go later down the road. The lsvtec thing has been aroudn for a good 5-6 years now and all of a sudden everyone and the grandmother talks abotu it liek it's god...but really it's nto a really good setup...when peopel first started doign it is was cool and everyone thought why didnt' they do this from the factory then peoepl started blowign them sky high...and a b18 stock bottom with a b16 head will make very low hp numbers you need cams, pistosn to boost compression yada yada that's how you get the 190 whp that goes kaboom... . I said good day