Honda Civic Performance - JDM Discussion Engine tech, forced induction, springs, shocks, brakes, tires, etc.

B18c1 in a EF Hatch...Opinions on setup...

Old 18-May-2006, 07:07 PM
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B18c1 in a EF Hatch...Opinions on setup...

Its a B18c1 in a 1989 Civic Si (40 lbs lighter than 90-91 Si:*****:

JDM B16 (P30) or JDM ITR Pistons (Friction Coated) Sandblasted. Im gonna have to send the block and pistons in to the machine shop to get fully re-surfaced, sandblasted and to get them to make the bore of the piston hole (where the connecting rod connects to) a bit bigger in diameter so the pistons will mount on the connecting rod. Now I wont need to bore block or change pistons rings cause most USDM and JDM Piston rings are the same size. Im gonna have the block inspected thoroughly for cracks, chips, clearances, balanced (maybe) etc. And fully cleaned. Brand new ARP Rod Bolts, Main caps, all new bearings (main, rod), Brand new GSR oil pump, water pump all new gaskets.
ITR Flywheel (resurfaced for brand new clutch), probably do the rear main seal, resurface the deck and whatever else neets to be done to the block

As for the head...For now, lol, Im gonna try to get me some ITR Valvetrain and make sure I send that head into a real good shop for P&P and a super good cleaning inside and out. AEM Cam Gears, ARP Head bolts, dont know what timing belt to get (cause I dont want that bitch to snap), ITR or stock Intake Manifold and TB (62mm for ITR)

After this is all said and done TUNE TUNE TUNE!!! and ya i know its gonna cost around $4000 but **** it. In a EF hatch its all worth it and hopefully beat the "BIG" guy with the back DA that races supercharged mustangs AND KEEPS UP!!!

As for the Trannie I got a crazy deal on a B17 Cable Trannie (92-93 GSR) that I might grab but do u guys think I should change the pilot bearing before I put it in and why?

Please any other suggestions that u guys (and Greek) have dont be afraid cause I want the best possible N/A (no turbo) setup possible. If u recommend me doing something else just put it down

U guys think i would need Traction bars? and also i heard its better to stay with OBD1 cause its better for tuning but I wouldnt mind Getting 96+ gsr parts cause they are newer so what do u guys think
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Old 18-May-2006, 07:42 PM
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first off, if you're going to buy new pistons buy .5mm OS and do yourself a favour and bore/hone the block to start fresh.
I would recommend balancing, its expensive, but worth it if you plan on constant high revs.
ITR intake manifold won't fit the gsr head b/c the bolt pattern is different. If you buy an aftermarket IM go AEBS, not skunk2. The skunk2 is just the b16/itr design with the gsr flange on it (do some research into the differences between the p72 (gsr) and the PR3 (b16/itr) cylinder heads and you'll understand why this is important).
I would also recommend an aftermarket flywheel (like fidanza or act or something) if you're going to buy a different one, b/c you can get them as light as 7lbs. Don't forget about the clutch, get a good one, they usually come as a kit with the clutch disk, pressure plate, release bearing and pilot bearing (which you change in the flywheel, not in the tranny).
What are you thinking in terms of cams?
I would use a better valve train than just the ITR vt.
Make sure that the adjustable cam gears you get have more than just 3 adjusting bolts, the ones with only 3 are known to slip.
ARP hardware is a good idea. But with the main studs you really need to get it line honed b/c you torque them down a lot tighter than you do with the stock bolts, so there is a chance that the main journals might get a little distorted. The same goes with using ARP rod bolts, i would get the big ends of the connecting rods honed to make sure they're completely true (round).
Who builds it and who tunes it is equally as important as the parts being used. So choose wisely and you won't be disappointed.
for n/a.
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Old 18-May-2006, 08:10 PM
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My buddy just put a B20/Vtec in his EF hatch....needless to say the car is nuts.
If you want, I can get complete B20Z for 750 with legit papers.
Get yourself an ITR head and you'll be laughing. Get some B18C arp headstuds, as Andrew suggested; 5 bolt cam gears and a header.
Thats what I'm doing. I was gonna boost my B16 but I'm past the boost stage and N/A is harder/funner to build.
You could always boost the B20/Vtec and cause some serious damage on the highway.
I would use the ITR girdle for strength. But remember if you go with the ITR girdle you're gonna also need the windage tray, oil pick up and pan.
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Old 19-May-2006, 02:18 AM
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Hey Andrew I have a couple of questions dude.
what do u mean when u say buy .5 mm OS?? Is that the piston ring size cause at the dealer they ask for the size right? and if I bore the walls does that mean I gotta run aftermarket pistons to match the size of the cylinder wall? And is hone just like to make it smooth again with the most minimal change in diameter size? I was gonna use the P30 Pistons with new piston rings or P73 Pistons, but with the P73's i would have to get the machinist to machine the rods to fit the P73 pistons. The P73 Pistons are lighter and have some sort of coating on them but its been proven that the P30's provide more C/R

For the flywheel coulnt I just go with a ITR Flywheel re-surfaced since im gonna put a fresh clutch kit in? Whats the benefit of those lightwheel flywheels?

With cams im looking for a nice powerband in more mid range right up to redline. What are good cams for that? Jun 3's? Skunk 2 stage 2's? Crower's?

should I just get some aftermarket valve springs and retainers and keep the valves stock?

What do u mean line honed for the main studs? Will a good machine shop do a service like this without having me to remind them?

3 angle valve job and mild P&P for the head?

Since its gonna be a total rebuild what other stuff should I get done since the motor is out. (god forbid I have to rip it out for a spun bearing or something. Main Bearings? Rod Bearings? New Valve seals? New GSR oil pump or should I go aftermarket? All new OEM or ?? (hondata?) gaskets? Teflon Timing belt or is OEM Fine?

U would recommend getting the crank balanced eh? lol ya im gonna be having fun with this motor so I guess geting this service done would be worth it (I have a heavy foot on the accelerator, LOL)

Please refer me to a really good reputable machine shop that knows their motors real good, especially their Vtec motors. doesnt matter if I gotta travel.

Sorry for the questions Its just gonna be my first build and I dont wanna spend money on unessesary stuff that I wouldnt need but in the same note I dont wanna screw anything up cause this aint cheap and I know that already
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Old 19-May-2006, 06:57 PM
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Gord Bush Performance

You can buy Honda OS (oversized) pistons/rings. I would. Staying OEM is a good idea for the bottom end (bearings, oil/water pump, seals, gaskets). I would use 81.5mm P30s and rings b/c its better to start fresh, especially compared to tossin' in some used pistons and new rings and running stock bore IMO.
If you are going to buy another flywheel and resurface/balance it, you might as well just buy an aftermarket lightweight one. The benefits of a lightened flywheel are definately noticeable, it makes the engine rev up/down quicker due to less rotational mass.
I would just use stock valves since you're getting a valve job and p'n'p, they'll cut the valves/seats for max flow and a perfect seal to the valve seat. I would change the valve seals while its all out, and gord will tell you if you need new valve guides or not. But definately use aftermarket valvetrain, omni, crower, crane, rocket, portflow all make good valve springs/retainers. Skunk2 Pro series is a serious cam. Rocket Motorsport also makes a pretty hefty cam.
Tell Gord that you want him to line hone the main journals b/c you're using ARP main studs and he'll agree that its a really good idea. He'll also agree that balancing the rotating assembly is a good idea, especially for a high RPM engine.
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Old 19-May-2006, 07:53 PM
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For this type of service what am I looking to spend on machining work?

and is there different sized P30's? or are u just talking about the bigger piston ring and thats it?

Also, is OBD1 better for tuning...I heard that somewhere but i would really like to get a nice 96+ motor
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Old 19-May-2006, 11:18 PM
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you're looking at a lot of money for that kind of machine work...like well over $1000 just in machine work.
You can get pretty much any honda piston in STD (standard) and OS (oversized) sizes. When you bore the block you need to get oversized pistons, not just oversized piston rings.
OBD1 is better for tuning. You can use whatever year engine you want. Converting to obd1 (from obd2) doesn't really have anything to do with the engine, just the ecu. You can buy a 01 gsr engine if you'd like, you will just need an obd2 to obd1 conversion harness so you can plug an obd1 ecu into your obd2 harness.
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Old 20-May-2006, 12:29 AM
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I was planning on buying some used pistons (P30) but does that mean now I will need to go directly to Honda and get brand new ones? Do they offer different sizes in pistons/rings at Honda?

How would I go about getting a bigger size of Piston/Piston ring is what Im trying to say? New or if I wanted to look for a used set also???
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Old 20-May-2006, 01:19 AM
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i don't know how many times you need me to say it, but YES you can get different size pistons/rings at honda!!!
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Old 20-May-2006, 05:12 AM
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what if im gonna buy used P30 Pistons is what Im asking? Can i just get the oversized rings cause the piston will probably end up being 81mm right
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Old 20-May-2006, 09:40 AM
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OS rings on STD pistons?

thats just common sense right there..
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Old 20-May-2006, 10:36 AM
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NO you cannot use oversized piston rings on a standard sized piston. If you want to bore the block and start fresh you have to buy oversized pistons AND rings....which you CAN buy from honda. Or you can buy them from like topline or nippon if you are just looking for OE replacement cast pistons (not forged).
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