Nova_Dust

That is the route I am taking.

Recently paid for a set of Crower 62405 cams, and I can see my future with this engine is going to be hellish. Everyone talks about rough idle, and I guess eventually I will find out what it is all about.

So, now the cams are ready, I am going for a set of dual valve springs with retainers. As for retainers, I have done some research and will go with Crower Ti retainers. Valves will be SuperTech and next thing on the list is head job.

I wish to get a P8R head to work on. If I can't, I won't cry about the P75. Canadian Cylinder Head is a good place to visit, but price shopping is important of course.

For piston, RS Machine ITR spec 84mm piston. I will keep it stock bore, but give it an increase of compression to utilize the cams. ACL bearings, some type of rods, and balance the block.

Fuel pump is stock ITR, injectors should be at least 440cc. Tune on dyno with tuner's choice of program. I don't think I will run a standalone.

Any pointers? Thanks

imported_mikepasini

wouldn't having vtec up top be crucial for you top end performance especillay if you are revving it a little higher with new cams? unless you got a good price on those cams, i would trade them or swap them for a set of vtec cams. you don't wanna be only revvin to 5500 like a sentra se-r... common charles!!!! REV to 9K on a b20... poppin vtech and of course make sure you throw an RS*R straight pipe on it too!!! lol

sounds like a cool build and i would be very interested to see this build when its complete... and go for a ride... maybe charles?

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

well, if you're going to purchase new pistons i would HIGHLY recommend going .5mm oversized, bore/hone is only about $100.
Those RS machines pistons were designed to be used with stock rods, so don't buy aftermarket rods, just get ARP rod bolts.
If you're going to get Crower retainers, get Crower valve springs as well, i wouldn't really mix and match valve springs and retainers (not that you can't, its just that I wouldn't IMO).
440s will be plenty for your build, you definately won't run out of injector.

Mugen Power

i honestly believe that most people who refuse to go vtec, and stay non love being different. which i admire. but, at the end of the day, a b20V will make more power, idle like stock and cost pretty much the same seeing that the shortblock is being freshened up, aftermarket cams & vt...etc. just think about what your goals are before jumping in head first. i mean, is a rough idle non-tec 20 worth that extra grunt from 2500-4000rpm? cuz after that, vtec will produce a broader powerband. either, g/l with the project. i used to love non-vtec power

chris_si98

charles.. when you gonna be doing this build?

I have a p8r b20, and I'll be going b20vtec in a month-2..

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

you know about nonVTEC.com yeah charles?

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

from user jcushing on nonVTEC

http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3816071

b20z block slightly decked
acl race bearings arp rod bolts arp head studs
stock ls rods resized/balanced to accept RS machines cast 84.5mm "R" pistons (~11.5:1)
JDM P8R head, milled .024 with valvejob and chamber work
crower 404 cams, gears at -4,+4
skunk2 IM 65mm AEBS TB 3" short ram with bpi flowstack/k&n thermal IM gasket
custom 4-2-1 header 1 3/4 " primaries stepped to 2" 2.5" collector full 2.5" exhaust incl high flow cat + maganflow muffler and resonator

add it up and you get a whole lot of midrange blue = newest setup, red = same setup minus TB, flowstack, thermal gasket and different cam gear and fuel settings, green = stock b20z block, stock p75 head same IHE and cams as red

iwanna93sihatch

wow eh I wouldnt be dissapointed with that setup.I mean its clear to see how good they work with not alot of money

imported_360_vortex

going to be a sick build charles

i agree with zeeman, if you are going for crower setup might as well use their valve springs and retainers.

but man charles...405 is going to be insane, idle will definitely be rough but it will yield good results


when is the build going to be finished?

Nova_Dust

Thanks guys.

Bruno, I have browsed that forum many times but seems a bit slow. I have also read about jcushing's build many times but never spoke to him. I originally wanted a set of 403 but these 405 came my way and I said "yes" to them, and that is the route I am going.

VTEC will have more power for less money, but I guess my "goal" is to make this build work, that's it. If it makes power, it makes power. If it only makes 160whp (cause I am too stupid to make it work) then so be it. It is an idea and I just want to take it from start to finish. I daily drive the hardest mounts that HAsport has to offer, if I am this stupid, I think I am suitable to daily drive a set of 405s.

Nova_Dust

The build is essentially started, but not in a super rush as to get everything running in a week. I am collecting parts so I don't get charged too much for them from the engine builder.

If you are selling your P8R head, send it this way. I don't know what your price is but if we can work something out then, that would be cool.

Thanks

Nova_Dust

Ok, a new run down of parts:

Head:

P8R head
Crower 405
Crower (or Brian Crower) Dual Springs, Ti Retainers, and valves
Adjustable cam gears
Head work and valve job

Short block:

Overhaul + 0.5mm overbore
RS Machines 84.5mm ITR spec pistons
ACL bearings
Stock rods shot peened (if needed)
blue print and balanced

Intake:

Larger TB and aftermarket IM, Blox comes to mind.

Fuel:

440
ITR fuel pump
FPR

------------------------
Questions:

1) Heard about some stories about Ti retainers, would it better to use high strength steel retainers? Car is not used for drag, but daily driving and summer road racing.

2) RS machines cast pistons, are they decent products?

Thanks

Nova_Dust

Estimated finish date, can't say at this point. But it is definitely on my plate so I don't want to give it up until it is done. I say hopefully, before April 2007.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

just add ARP bolts to your stock rods and ARP head studs. besides that, I def recommend talking to Steve Leitner for the rest of it. I can't claim to have enough NA knowledge to be of much help.

Nova_Dust

Yes yes, ARP connecting rod + head bolts, keep on forgeting that.

Steve told me to go VTEC haha. But I will get his advice on who to go to for machine work. Gord Bush most likely, but see who else can do the job.

I was quoted $900 for a general overhaul work, and $250 for overbore and hone. So if I can get most of the parts on my own, see if I can cut the cost down. Not using an aftermarket rod saved me money right there.

dingus888

you have the cams and decent compression now you just need the head to flow...a nice port job is a must probobly over cammed with the stock ports I woudl think. What header itr..??

Would be kinda cool if you did your own port work then just get a nice valve job done...

Nova_Dust

If I get a P8R head, then I need to use Crower VTEC intake valve cause it is 33mm? And when do you use oversize valves? When you do P&P? or is that valve job?

Is there a difference between VTEC and nonVTEC valves besides from one being 33mm and the other being 31mm? Since exhaust is all 28mm, can they be interchanged?

Nova_Dust

It is a 4-2-1 header, a company that makes JUN header. I don't think I am capable enough to do a port work...

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

it's all done in the name of increasing airflow, decreasing restrictions.

oversize valves are exactly that, bigger seats are cut into the head, allowing more air to pass at any given lift.

port and polish reshapes the ports and runners to minimize restrictions and decrease drag on the incoming charge of air, and at the same time increasing swirl for better fuel distribution in the combustion chamber. you don't want any hotspots in the CC.

valve job is the process of cutting new valve seats... then you can choose to have a three angle, five angle, or radius seat.

the valve closes down on the seat with spring pressure... you wanna ****** out this pressure as well as you can to reduce wear and tear on the seat. so for reliability vs. performance, I would go three angle. the five angle job leaves less area for the valve to seat itself down on, and removes more material for better air flow around the valve. a radius seat is basically the most extreme of valve jobs... basically leaves one point for the valve to contact and seal on, the rest of the material is smoothed and shaped to allow maximum airflow around the valve.

consider also the shape of the back of the valve too, cuz that has a lot to do with airflow. some valves are tapered in the stem to both lighten them and reduce restriction.

anyways... there will always be conflicting opinions in this area. headwork is more of an art meets science... you gotta know the science, but the work is ultimately art. it's what seperates the exceptional builders from the mediocre.

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

as for wear on the titanium retainers, i would just get some springs with a spring rate of around 200 or so (not too much over), this is so the springs don't put too much wear on the rest of the valve train, this is where the omni and RM valvetrain are nice.
I've got well over 35,000 MILES (not km) on my dual springs and titanium retainers (crane) without any problems.
About the valves, i'm not 100% sure if they're interchangeable, i mean, sure they'll fit, but from my experience the angles on the valves are different (if the angles on the valves are different they're prolly different on the valve seat in the head). Ideally ITR valves would be best b/c the stem is narrower and the face of the valve is thinner which equates to lighter valves and better flow (the angles on the valves are pretty good as well). This is only on the intake side, the exhaust valves are the same as b16s. The gsr uses different valves, or at least different angle cut onto them.
Don't forget about the combustion chamber itself, make sure that receives some attention. If you take it to gordie i'm sure he'll mention/do it.
Assembly can be done for much less than what GB charges, but at the same time, you get what you pay for. Even assembling yourself is an option, just make sure to use the right sized bearings (i think you mentioned ACLs, so make sure you've got good clearances....plastiguage is key) and piston ring end gap.