alignment after spring install?
31-Mar-2004, 08:36 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 611
The way I see it is, even the smallest drop of the chassis will force the wheels to tilt outward by a small amount.
The wheels will only be PERFECTLY perpendicular to the chassis if the car is at STOCK height with STOCK tires.
Wheels PERFECTLY perpendicular means MAXIMUM road contact and hence MINIMAL tire wear.
Dropping the car by the slightest amount will affect your camber angle, it's up to you to decide how far is too far before having to correct that with a kit.
A good rule of thumb would be to closely take pictures of your tires BEFORE the drop and 300-500km AFTER the drop then study the wear pattern and make a decision based on that.
The wheels will only be PERFECTLY perpendicular to the chassis if the car is at STOCK height with STOCK tires.
Wheels PERFECTLY perpendicular means MAXIMUM road contact and hence MINIMAL tire wear.
Dropping the car by the slightest amount will affect your camber angle, it's up to you to decide how far is too far before having to correct that with a kit.
A good rule of thumb would be to closely take pictures of your tires BEFORE the drop and 300-500km AFTER the drop then study the wear pattern and make a decision based on that.
31-Mar-2004, 08:50 PM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: RichmondHill, Toronto
Posts: 764
Well, no car has wheels that are PERFECTLY perpendicular to the ground. Every car has some -ve chamber, that is necessary for the car, to have enough grip over the turns and curbs. A little -ve chamber is actually good for your car, since it gives you more tire contact, while the car is turning. When at a turn, the weight of the car actually shifts to the outwards of the turn, and focuses itself of the 2 outward tires.(Front and back). Now in this condition, if you have no chamber, the tires will lose grip, and turn on the outer edge of the tires, instead of having the full contact surface touching the ground.
Therefore, EVERY car needs a bit of -ve chamber, and A LITTLE bit more is actually good for the handeling, since it improves contact surface of the tires and the road on turns.
Just look at any car from behind, and you will see that the tires are NOT perfectly perpendicular, and ARE a bit tilted.
Therefore, EVERY car needs a bit of -ve chamber, and A LITTLE bit more is actually good for the handeling, since it improves contact surface of the tires and the road on turns.
Just look at any car from behind, and you will see that the tires are NOT perfectly perpendicular, and ARE a bit tilted.
31-Mar-2004, 08:50 PM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,508
Originally posted by mourad
300-500km AFTER the drop then study the wear pattern and make a decision based on that.
300-500km AFTER the drop then study the wear pattern and make a decision based on that.
I agree...
from my own personal experiance, i barely had any camber ware with a 2.0 drop after a whole summer of driving, well its enough to notice and have made me consider a kit, but it didnt ruin my tires like some others ive seen...
BTW i did get a kit for this summer, but for other reasons then camber ware... I want total adjustabilty to customize my handeling charecteristics and tire contact for the holeshot. Ill probably use 1 or so degrees of negative camber for extra bite in the hard corners, just like what a pro kit is gonna make
31-Mar-2004, 09:06 PM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 611
Originally posted by Gatsby
that is necessary for the car, to have enough grip over the turns and curbs. A little -ve chamber is actually good for your car, since it gives you more tire contact, while the car is turning. When at a turn, the weight of the car actually shifts to the outwards of the turn, and focuses itself of the 2 outward tires.(Front and back). Now in this condition, if you have no chamber, the tires will lose grip, and turn on the outer edge of the tires, instead of having the full contact surface touching the ground.
that is necessary for the car, to have enough grip over the turns and curbs. A little -ve chamber is actually good for your car, since it gives you more tire contact, while the car is turning. When at a turn, the weight of the car actually shifts to the outwards of the turn, and focuses itself of the 2 outward tires.(Front and back). Now in this condition, if you have no chamber, the tires will lose grip, and turn on the outer edge of the tires, instead of having the full contact surface touching the ground.
I must be confused or ignorant. I wouldn't mind a second opinion on that. bbarbulo to the rescue?
since most people do a LOT more forward driving than they make turns, it would make sense for tire manufacturers (also cheaper) to make perfectly symmetrical tires - which they do hence the whole balancing process thing.
If tires are perfectly balanced and they are angled slightly while driving forward, then by implication, every tire of every car will have worn out outter edges - all that to accomodate for occasional better handling during turns?
Besides, if the tires are cambered to allow for better traction for the inner tires while turning, then by definition, the outter tires will even even *less* tractions during a turn than they would if they weren't cambered.
Just look at any car from behind, and you will see that the tires are NOT perfectly perpendicular, and ARE a bit tilted.
I'm not trying to argue or doubt you gatsby, I just like to elliminate any doubt and bust any myths and what better place to start than this forum right? I could be wrong and I couldn't care less because at the end of the day, I would have learned something and so will anyone reading this during the days to follow.
31-Mar-2004, 09:30 PM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,508
My answer is the right one:P hehe this topic has been beaten to death, do a seach you will see everyones opinions. simplest solution is to leave it...then asses your camber ware as you see fit
edit* this i mean with a pro kit or any other small drop... anything over 2.0 your definatly gonna have issues...
edit* this i mean with a pro kit or any other small drop... anything over 2.0 your definatly gonna have issues...
31-Mar-2004, 09:35 PM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,508
Originally posted by mourad
I must be confused or ignorant. I wouldn't mind a second opinion on that. bbarbulo to the rescue?
since most people do a LOT more forward driving than they make turns, it would make sense for tire manufacturers (also cheaper) to make perfectly symmetrical tires - which they do hence the whole balancing process thing.
If tires are perfectly balanced and they are angled slightly while driving forward, then by implication, every tire of every car will have worn out outter edges - all that to accomodate for occasional better handling during turns?
Besides, if the tires are cambered to allow for better traction for the inner tires while turning, then by definition, the outter tires will even even *less* tractions during a turn than they would if they weren't cambered.
I guess I'm not observant either.
I'm not trying to argue or doubt you gatsby, I just like to elliminate any doubt and bust any myths and what better place to start than this forum right? I could be wrong and I couldn't care less because at the end of the day, I would have learned something and so will anyone reading this during the days to follow.
I must be confused or ignorant. I wouldn't mind a second opinion on that. bbarbulo to the rescue?
since most people do a LOT more forward driving than they make turns, it would make sense for tire manufacturers (also cheaper) to make perfectly symmetrical tires - which they do hence the whole balancing process thing.
If tires are perfectly balanced and they are angled slightly while driving forward, then by implication, every tire of every car will have worn out outter edges - all that to accomodate for occasional better handling during turns?
Besides, if the tires are cambered to allow for better traction for the inner tires while turning, then by definition, the outter tires will even even *less* tractions during a turn than they would if they weren't cambered.
I guess I'm not observant either.
I'm not trying to argue or doubt you gatsby, I just like to elliminate any doubt and bust any myths and what better place to start than this forum right? I could be wrong and I couldn't care less because at the end of the day, I would have learned something and so will anyone reading this during the days to follow.
Gatsby is correct... but u misunderstood him... the tires dont have camber built in... the mcphearson suspension sits natually with a little bit of camber... hell i had camber ware on my old tires with stcok suspension... look at any honda from the rear end, you will notice a little bit of factory camber...
31-Mar-2004, 09:47 PM
#19
haha...
I didn't read most of this, but...
in reality, if you are just swapping springs, and DO NOT have a camber kit, there is NOTHING that an alignment can do for you unless you are already due for an alignment.
I like to do alignments once a year or once every other year depending on how much I use the cars.
I didn't read most of this, but...
in reality, if you are just swapping springs, and DO NOT have a camber kit, there is NOTHING that an alignment can do for you unless you are already due for an alignment.
I like to do alignments once a year or once every other year depending on how much I use the cars.
31-Mar-2004, 09:56 PM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 611
speaking of alignments...
my car loves to go to the left at high speeds. Something that alignments fix but only for a couple of months. I can't afford to have her done every couple months, how can I take matters into my own hands?
(a solution that does not involve hammers, welding, or TTC is best)
my car loves to go to the left at high speeds. Something that alignments fix but only for a couple of months. I can't afford to have her done every couple months, how can I take matters into my own hands?
(a solution that does not involve hammers, welding, or TTC is best)
