Adding a vtec in a B20 motor.
03-Oct-2005, 11:43 AM
#41
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 423
i agree with what alot of ppl have said about most people never actually building up a motor and talking S*** and ill agree im one of those ppl i havent built a motor but have been in a ton of cars with different motors and personal opinion go with a b20 with gsr header and tranny i would say thats the best bang for your buck pulls hard
lol!
08-Oct-2005, 04:35 PM
#43
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 205
Originally posted by zeeman
t.
And i would say as a minimum use a new b20 oil pump and a gsr water pump and timing belt..
t.
And i would say as a minimum use a new b20 oil pump and a gsr water pump and timing belt..
Sorry for bringing this one back but i was just searching old stuff and came across this.
Hes refered to as the 'engine god'?
you eaither use BOTH Vtec oil and water pump, or BOTH non-vtec.
Vtec and non vtec stuff has different numbes of teeth.. Gotta keep em the same boss
Oh yeah.. Goodluck with your setup.
08-Oct-2005, 09:26 PM
#44
Well first of all i would consider someone like LEITNER to be the engine god, not me.
Now, about the oil and water pumps.
Vtec water pumps have 22 teeth and non vtec water pumps have 19 teeth. This is why if you use a vtec water pump you need to use the gsr/itr timing belt. It has nothing to do with the oil pump.
You can use whatever oil pump floats your boat, but i would recommend using an 98+ oil pump, be it gsr, itr, b20, they're all the same. But you will need to get the corresponding lower timing belt cover b/c if you are using a pre-96 lower timing belt cover it won't have the hole for the crank sensor and won't fit right.
All b-series crank sprokets are the same, so i don't see how changing the oil pump has anything to do with the timing belt. When you change the pump you will still use the same crank sproket. Its only the water pump that effects which timing belt you have to use. Non-vtec water pump use a non-vtec timing belt, vtec water pump use a gsr/itr timing belt, the b16 timing belt will be too short.
Now do you know why its necessary to use a vtec water pump on lsvtec's?
Its b/c the vtec water pumps have more teeth, thus spinning slower. Which is important especially at high rpms. If the water pump is spining too fast it will move to coolant through the engine too fast and not allow it to absorb the heat as well as would if it was moving slower.
Now, about the oil and water pumps.
Vtec water pumps have 22 teeth and non vtec water pumps have 19 teeth. This is why if you use a vtec water pump you need to use the gsr/itr timing belt. It has nothing to do with the oil pump.
You can use whatever oil pump floats your boat, but i would recommend using an 98+ oil pump, be it gsr, itr, b20, they're all the same. But you will need to get the corresponding lower timing belt cover b/c if you are using a pre-96 lower timing belt cover it won't have the hole for the crank sensor and won't fit right.
All b-series crank sprokets are the same, so i don't see how changing the oil pump has anything to do with the timing belt. When you change the pump you will still use the same crank sproket. Its only the water pump that effects which timing belt you have to use. Non-vtec water pump use a non-vtec timing belt, vtec water pump use a gsr/itr timing belt, the b16 timing belt will be too short.
Now do you know why its necessary to use a vtec water pump on lsvtec's?
Its b/c the vtec water pumps have more teeth, thus spinning slower. Which is important especially at high rpms. If the water pump is spining too fast it will move to coolant through the engine too fast and not allow it to absorb the heat as well as would if it was moving slower.
10-Oct-2005, 08:59 AM
#48
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: At your moms
Posts: 2,633
Originally posted by DarkKid
why u need a b20 when u can have a b18c for similer price?
why u need a b20 when u can have a b18c for similer price?
10-Oct-2005, 10:50 AM
#49
Almost is the key word. Well if you are rich and can afford to spend $2000 on the engine alone then go b18c by all means. Using a b18c will eliminate a lot of things necessary on a b20, such as rod bolts, external oil feed line, machining the head to fit the bigger dowel pins and the use of aftermarket pistons b/c you can use any b-series piston of choice. And a gsr has nice things like a main girdle, vtec oil and water pumps already, internal vtec oil feed, and a much more rev-friendly rod/stroke ratio.
I would love to build a gsr but can't justify spending so much on just the engine to end up changing most of the parts anyways. And besides i got the b20 that i am building for free for doing a swap to my buddy's car.
I would love to build a gsr but can't justify spending so much on just the engine to end up changing most of the parts anyways. And besides i got the b20 that i am building for free for doing a swap to my buddy's car.
11-Oct-2005, 09:06 PM
#54
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 6,647
I have a question....
What would be the best bang-for-the-buck engine and tranny swap?
Cheapest, easiest to install, decent power, etc. No turbos or head swaps, just a decent engine to put into an EK Hatch for a project/weekend car. Nothing crazy fast, but something that is still fun to drive.
What would be the best bang-for-the-buck engine and tranny swap?
Cheapest, easiest to install, decent power, etc. No turbos or head swaps, just a decent engine to put into an EK Hatch for a project/weekend car. Nothing crazy fast, but something that is still fun to drive.
11-Oct-2005, 10:23 PM
#55
b20 all the way. Doesn't get any easier. Straight up drop in. Get the right mounts and b-series linkage and axles and you're good. Don't have to worry about obd conversion or wiring in vtec. I would use a b16 or gsr tranny.
11-Oct-2005, 10:37 PM
#57
it sure is. But revving at 4000rpms in 5th doing 120km/hr sucks. And its a not a b16 its a b20. So if you plan on doing a little more than just some highway driving i wouldn't use a b16 tranny. But if this wasn't a daily driver and you're looking for all out performance i would go with a b16 w/LSD.
But b20's have lots of low end so a little longer gear wouldn't be so bad when you make a lot of torque. B16's need to get the rev's up quick b/c they don't make any real power under 6000rpms.
But b20's have lots of low end so a little longer gear wouldn't be so bad when you make a lot of torque. B16's need to get the rev's up quick b/c they don't make any real power under 6000rpms.
01-Dec-2005, 04:42 PM
#58
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ontario
Posts: 18,367
Stock B20 needs short gear tranny to make it "fun" to drive. Depending on how short you go (4.4 or 4.785), your gas mileage will suffer accordingly however, given that stock B20 still accepts 87 octane gasoline, losing a bit on fuel economy isn't that big a deal.
Yes, I agree that B20 is probably the most cost effective, easy to install swap that is the best bang for the buck. The result is obvious. All you need are
These are the absolute must. Then you have the choice to upgrade the following:
Just the basic stuff, under 3000 for sure, around 2700, and that's including labour, brand new tranny mount and conversion harness. Anything more than 3000, you better get some fancy stuffs added to the long block or a super duper mint tranny.
It all depends on what you want. B20 will give you decent start up power you need under normal city driving, just to keep up with most of the domestic vehicles that has some good torques, so people don't tailgate your *** all the time. On highway, gives you decent passing power or for you to merge into lanes easier. In a sense, you are doing this swap just to keep up with the regular traffic, nothing specticular nor does it make you king of the road. But compare to some of the factory old Civics, yes, it is a nice upgrade. And 3000 dollars is not that big of a deal for someone who has a decent regular job and it can last you long long time.
Yes, I agree that B20 is probably the most cost effective, easy to install swap that is the best bang for the buck. The result is obvious. All you need are
- B20 long block (with P75 intake manifold to clear the hood)
- B16/GSR/ITR tranny
- P75/P06 OBD1 ECU (and chip is accordingly, or else you run low fuel and low idle, unless you don't care)
- OBD2A/B--> OBD1 conversion harness
- SiR rear tranny mount (black "L" shape mount, or the K mount as some people call it)
- SiR drive axles (to keep it 32mm)
- B series shift linkages
- Any B series exhaust manifold
- catalytic convertor
These are the absolute must. Then you have the choice to upgrade the following:
- Longer fuel line (stock D will work, just tight)
- B series radiator - like SiR
- 32mm radiator hoses
Just the basic stuff, under 3000 for sure, around 2700, and that's including labour, brand new tranny mount and conversion harness. Anything more than 3000, you better get some fancy stuffs added to the long block or a super duper mint tranny.
It all depends on what you want. B20 will give you decent start up power you need under normal city driving, just to keep up with most of the domestic vehicles that has some good torques, so people don't tailgate your *** all the time. On highway, gives you decent passing power or for you to merge into lanes easier. In a sense, you are doing this swap just to keep up with the regular traffic, nothing specticular nor does it make you king of the road. But compare to some of the factory old Civics, yes, it is a nice upgrade. And 3000 dollars is not that big of a deal for someone who has a decent regular job and it can last you long long time.
01-Dec-2005, 07:17 PM
#59
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North York/Oshawa
Posts: 469
Originally posted by zeeman
it sure is. But revving at 4000rpms in 5th doing 120km/hr sucks. And its a not a b16 its a b20. So if you plan on doing a little more than just some highway driving i wouldn't use a b16 tranny. But if this wasn't a daily driver and you're looking for all out performance i would go with a b16 w/LSD.
But b20's have lots of low end so a little longer gear wouldn't be so bad when you make a lot of torque. B16's need to get the rev's up quick b/c they don't make any real power under 6000rpms.
it sure is. But revving at 4000rpms in 5th doing 120km/hr sucks. And its a not a b16 its a b20. So if you plan on doing a little more than just some highway driving i wouldn't use a b16 tranny. But if this wasn't a daily driver and you're looking for all out performance i would go with a b16 w/LSD.
But b20's have lots of low end so a little longer gear wouldn't be so bad when you make a lot of torque. B16's need to get the rev's up quick b/c they don't make any real power under 6000rpms.
01-Dec-2005, 07:40 PM
#60
nope, with a b16 tranny at 120km/hr its at 4000rpms. Which isn't so bad really on a b16, but for a b20 thats a different story.
And with a b16 tranny on a b20/crvtec 1st gear is pretty much a waste.
And with a b16 tranny on a b20/crvtec 1st gear is pretty much a waste.
