9HatchSi3

i'm planning on going turbo soon.

i currently have a d16z6 with 321xxx kms on it, havent done a compression test / leakdown test recently but it seems to run healthy, burns some oil at high rpms.

should i go ahead and turbo this, or i was thinking of getting an LS swap and turboing that, or a b16 and boosting that.

what do you guys suggest? should i stay sohc for boost, or swap a dohc?

9HatchSi3

sorry, let me add some more information. my power goal is max 200 hp.
i wouldn't call it a budget build but i wont be able to invest too much into it

JDMej1

if you swapped a b16 or something along those lines, you would be able to easily pass that goal with only arp headstuds and a cometic headgasket, no other internal building. the d on the other hand would require a mildly built head.

iTaLiAn_vIrUs

Dohc ftw

rick10

Honestly if your goal is 200 hp then there is not an argument which swap you should go for... Any decent turbo on a d series engine should get you close to your goal

The only problem is your engine has a lot of mileage therefore you will have to get a compression and leak test to see if the engine is able to handle that much power , unless of course you want to upgrade the internals

I remembered asking zeeman before about high mileage engines and he told me that he had seen turbo engines with high mileage and with a proper tune they handle the power

Now if your goal is too reach 250 whp + then I would suggest swaing a gsr or sir engine plus a turbo...

Another suggestion would be getting a type r engine and forget about the turbo , nowdays you can find a lot of cheap ( 2000-3000) type rswap s out there , that would get you to around 160-170 whp , plus a few bolts on it should get you close to your goal..

The reason for suggesting the type r engine is because , lets supposed your d engine is no healthy , buying new internals plus the turbo and labour , it will run you close to 3000-4000 ...

While a type r swap could be done for 4000 and it will be more reliable ( keeping in mind you have a high mileage d engine)

I think getting a b series swap with a turbo to run 200 whp is a waste of money ... The only reason I would buy a b series engine and a turbo kit is to get close to 300 whp

9HatchSi3

i will get a leakdown / compression test soon, and see how the engine is doing. if its doing okay, i'm going to go for a mild turbo build on the z6. for the amount of power that i want, i don't think there would be any point of spending money on swapping an engine when i could relatively easily get around the 200 mark with a good tune and decent turbo parts, right?

rick10

A decent turbo kit with a proper tune should put you somewhere close ( + or - ) to 200 hp while keeping your d series

I think there was a member here running an e bay turbo kit with a tune by zeeman doing 170 whp

Therefore a good turbo kit should def get you close to your goal

Thats assuming you have a healthy engine to handle that much power

tr1p

Post up updates maybe you'll convince me to stay with my d. Lol sometimes I look at is as "too much maintenance for a turbo" I'm yet to see a smile on my face when I dd a boosted d.

+1 for rick10's type r idea. That's the road I'm going through since I'm putting off engine swap for another year and figure out my suspension setup ATM.

D.T.P

Yay for minor misinformation.

Here is the deal, since you already have a d series in your car and your horsepower goals being only 200whp it does not make any sense to build nor swap the motor. If compression test show that you are little low or uneven, just grab another d16z6. Straight swap and rods will not have a problem at 200-220whp mark.

Now let's say you get another motor and you are runnin 200whp safe and happy, I can bet you any money you will want more...its true and it will happen. That's when you order a bottom end kit from FJ distributors and build the spare D series you have. If you leave it up to a shop to assemble the bottom end, I don't see it costing more than 1200-1300$, replace the motors and from there on, I'm sure you'll have the power you could ever want.

It doesn't make any sense swapping a b series. Full swap installed will run you atleast 2000$, and your limits will still be under 300whp. While for less you can have the built d series perform and surpass that limit safely.

On a side note, invest the money in the turbo kit, don't want shady parts going on you during tune or a month down the road. Spend the money once and be done with it.

Now for the misinformation I mentioned, there is no need to touch the head. NA engines operate under vacuum and flow through ports dictates the power output. With turbo, you are forcing the air down the ports. Though yes, it would help if the head had race port job, the difference is so minor and I mean soo minor, spending money on head work is almost like burning cash right infront of you. Remember, you can just turn the boost controller up to compensate.

Hope this helps.
Martin

iTaLiAn_vIrUs

hmmm

scrid3r i agree with you to an extent

like everyone has stated.. it all depends on what he wants..

i think that spending that $2000 on a b series is a good idea, that motor has a much higher potential for boost IF you choose to go that route & has a good bwhp to zip around in as compared to his D series..


remember something OP
when ur starting to get involved in stuff like this you have to
a) have a goal in mind, on what you want the out come to be ( and im not saying in stone but a general idea)
b) If you choose to go that route turboing your D series.. i have a mint d16z6 for sale.. its been taken care of, i have the receipts to prove it PM me
hahaha

rick10

in his second post the OP stated his goal was 200 HP max

I missed that at first so i had to delete my first response

iTaLiAn_vIrUs

hahah well then
my bad..


i still say you get a b series change up ur heads/cams/exhaust the minor things
and a good tune and you'll be able to push 200whp

F8i

iTrader: (10)

I'm with Rick.
Get a type-r or build a b20vtec and a tune.
$400 for the block, $1200 for rods and pistons, source a head, may want a girdel, eagle conversion kit, engine mounts, tranny, exhaust, computer, water pump, oil pump, wiring, tune.
I had a type R in a 96' Hatch, loved it!
Have a Boosted b20vtec in a CRX, about to love it.

D.T.P

How does spending 2000$ on a b series swap hoping it will be in good condition is better than a D series. Don't want to start anything but...you can build a D series for less than what B series swap will cost you and it will be stronger.
Italian virus, again, don't take it wrong and I don't want to disrespect you, but few things cause me to scratch my head. Change heads/cams? Well only one head..and for a 200whp goal, changing cams is pointless. I mean you could swap OEM cams...but why? Minor difference. If you choose to upgrade to better cams, you will have to upgrade whole valvetrain and now you are wasting money. I mean yes, it will benefit you if your goal is 450whp+ but...its an absolute waste otherwise.

Moreover, for most street cars (200-350whp) cylinder head modifications are not needed. What you need to upgrade is the bottom end. Rods are the first thing that snap and that's why people upgrade to forged internals with lower compression pistons.
D series rods are ok up to 200-220whp for safe daily use. B series been known to hold up safe at 280-300whp. Few reasons why you would want to swap the head on a B-series is because if you have a non-vtec engine, the b18b or B20b which have the same identical heads flow like crap. Building b16 or gsr/itr head with ls block and turbo makes nice power. Low compression pistons and a head that flows very well result with the same power limits just requires less psi. So for 2000$+ for a b series swap you still have the same 280-300whp limitation due to poor rods.

It WILL cost less to build a D series than to swap a b series. End of story. You can say whatever you want, but unless you find a mad deal or know somebody, there will be no way.

Also, I'm not being biased towards d-series, I have a b swap and building another B-series for turbo project, but from some of the first hand experience and being in the whole Honda thing for a while now, I feel confident enough to stand behind my opinion.

F8i

iTrader: (10)

Because with the built B, you wouldn't need it turbo'd. And a built engine is safer than putting a turbo on another used (D) engine. Thus, saving you money.
Hasn't everyone noticed importers are scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to engines these days?

MPR

Martin is 100% right on the money.

Building a b-series to 200whp NA will cost you 3 times as much as a 200whp turbo d-series. Trust me, I've researched and priced it all out.

I don't know why people insist on saying it's necessary to change the cams when going turbo. OEM cams are the best you can have up to 300whp+. Aftermarket cams are mostly designed for NA builds and have loads of overlap, meaning they are useless for boost in the higher rpm range. Some companies do sell forced induction designed cams, but these are for more extreme builds (400whp+) and are simply not necessary and a waste of money if your goal is 200whp.

The 2 cheapest and safest ways to hit 200whp in a honda is with a d-series or stock LS B18B non vtec.

Compression and leakdown test is key to knowing if your engine is ready for boost. I would strongly advise against boosting your original 320,xxxkm engine. Even if compression is good, it may not last.

iTaLiAn_vIrUs

hey hey hey listen man we are all here to learn, its all good.
plus im still getting my feet wet when it comes to a swap or boost.


Ok i messed up by saying cams =P lol

but i was under the impression that with a few mods and some basic upgrades and a good tune
u could safely reach that 200whp goal?? i didnt think it would cost as much as a boosted D


again i apologize if this is a noob question, but im trying get a good general understanding of what is needed to achieve certain hp goals

iTaLiAn_vIrUs

really?? 3 times??

i thought some basic upgrades of the essentials and your laughing?..
lets say you had a b18c1

Power: 170 hp (127 kW) @ 7600 rpm
Torque: 128 lb·ft (174 N·m) @ 6200 rpm

so if his goal is 200whp, there isnt any mods other than turbo or without spending a fortune on internals to achieve that goal?


lol and all this time i thought it was easy to do so for a decent price lol

rick10

no worries mpr and scrid are cool

I dont think building a na b series built to reach 200 whp will cost more than to turbo a d series engine... That is if you already have a b series in your car

Problem is a lot of people think a sir or gsr swap is cheap.. I ve ask a few mechanics about the sir swap ( which is supposed to be the cheapest of the two) and i was quoted about 2500-3000 for the swap ( that is if i find the sir engine for a low cost)

Problem is you are already going to be 3000$ short before you even start building a na sir ...

While 3000 will surely get you a decent turbo on your d series engine

If the op goal is to reach 200 whp , then a type r engine should be more than enough , or like someone here suggest a b20 vtec

The only problem is he has a high mileage engine !

Personally i ll go get a type r engine ( which i may do since my engine has high mileage too ) ..

MPR

^I said it would cost 3 times as much to build a 200whp NA (non-turbo) b-series as it would to build a 200whp turbo d-series.

It will still cost less to boost a d-motor to 200whp then it would to boost a b-series vtec to 200whp, because the OP must first buy the b-series vtec motor which already will cost more than twice what a d-series motor costs. The only exceptions being the b18 non vtec LS, and b20 non-vtec motors. But both those engines, like the d-series, would require ARP rod bolts/head studs to achieve 200whp safely.

IF you already have a d-series and you want 200whp, just buy another d-motor, rebuild it with the proper/necessary components and swap it in with a new upgraded clutch and you're laughin.