tunnelvision

I have never seen a turbo charged car without one but im just curious?

Polkaroo Killa

No, but its not a good idea.

You want the max power from the compressed air, and when it's really really hot, it kind of defeats the purpose.

k_r_a_c_k_e_r

iTrader: (3)

^^ just what Polkaroo said.

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

i would say yes. If you want to run more than 5psi and want to decrease the chances of detonation you NEED an intercooler.

Hot air is garbage for making power.

spike

well i was running 12 psi without a FMIC and it ran fine, but it would be better to run a FMIC to be on the safe side.

zyepher

How much did you put down on a dyno with no fmic?

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

you also tuned your car with a NEO.

And ran 12psi on a stock MAP sensor (stock MAP sensors can only see 10psi), if that says anything.

sivic2000

Lots of racers run high boost with no intercooler, but they use alcohol/methanal fuels etc...

akira

And alot more will use some form of IC air-air water-air

weir

there was no form of intercooler on the champ car 2.65L v8 cosworth engines that made 850whp at a measly 6psi.... although, they ran on straight methanol.

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

running a car on methanol is a whole different story.

You'll want an intercooler....just b/c someone ran on 12psi without one doesn't mean its a good idea. I'm sure the car will run "good" but your IAT's will be rediculously high, which will bring you even closer to detonation and you'll make crappy power b/c hot air is less dense. Besides one persons idea of a car running "good" will probably be completely different than a tuners idea of a car running good.

sivic2000

6psi? I call B.S. what would be the point of even turbocharging it then?

I think its more like 40psi to get 850whp which is around 1000 crank

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

well a turbocharged V8 is completely different than a turbo'd 4 cylinder. 1psi will give you a whole lot more power than 1psi on a 4 banger....and it was running on methanol only.

weir

i was off by 50hp, but you still get schooled. they make the 750 at 2 or 3psi if i recall correctly... hell, the turbo isn't even a ballbearing, it is journal bearing. the only thing special about the turbo is that the cold side has a reverse volute to make it more compact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosworth

The 2004 model of the XFE had a rated power of nominal 750 hp (559 kW/750 bhp) at 1054 mmHg (intake boost pressure), and a maximum power of 800 bhp (597 kW/811 PS) at 1130 mmHg (during Push-to-Pass). The 2004 XFE maximum speed was 12,000 rpm (rev limited) and torque of 490 N·m (361 ft·lbf). The Aluminium and Iron turbo housing ran a boost of 5.9 psi at sea level (= boost of 12 inches of mercury which is 41.5 inches of mercury absolute). The Methanol-fueled engine used a steel crankshaft and aluminum alloy pistons. Weight was 120 kg (264.6 lb) and length was 539 mm (21.2 in).

how does that bs taste?

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

yummy

Polkaroo Killa

sivic2000, you've just be pwned. Like, ZOMG.

sivic2000

Yes I fully understand this, I owned a Talon Tsi for 6 years it made 275whp and 288wtq at 18psi on the stock 14b.

As for the V8 its very tiny, I didnt think it could make that power on low boost, but then I saw the torque figure which is less than half of the HP so...

I must of been thinking of early 80's F1 engines which were boosted to the max.

MPR

The car I race in autocross (see sig) an 87 MR2 supercharged, originally had an air to air IC. Since the car is an MR layout, the IC is mounted in the engine bay...with all the heat....to soak up....My friends and I called it an "interwarmer"...lol.

Long story short, one of the many mods we did on this car was an SC pulley kit to bump up the boost from the stock 8psi to about 13-14psi. Which is exactly what we got from it. The problem was, when we reviewed the datalogs after a couple of 3rd gear pulls, the IAT's were upwards of 260 degrees!!!

We then installed a water to air IC with a huge heat exchanger to cool the water. After many back to back dyno runs, the IAT's now rarely rise above 120 degrees max. Also, as a result of the cooler more dense air entering the engine, the boost has dropped to about 10-11psi. It's not as if there is less boost, the air is just much cooler and more dense, which is what makes more power. This was evident in the dyno results.

So, don't be cheap, use an IC of some kind.

BigJ5

Why do ppl think pressure levels are so important. The reason why your 4G63 talon makes 275 HP on 18 psi and an LS/V makes the same or more on half the pressure level is due to the VE - Volumetric efficiency.

Think about it like this

A B16A3 makes 160hp N/A (which is 1 atmosphere, 14.7 psia or 0 psig)
Assuming restrictions remain constant with one additional atmosphere the output would increase linearly.
Thus, a B16A3 at 2 atmosphere, 29.4 psia or 14.7 psig would make 320 hp

Now, since restriction do not remain constant the real power is lower. Backpressre from the turbo and exhaust (ex wastegate size), intake air temperature, compressor efficency, etc. All change the realistic output. Not by a whole lot, but do make a difference.

Reversing this math from your 4G63 output - roughly ~210 hp @ 8 psi would have your motor sitting in the ~135 hp ish range N/A

As we can clearly deduce, that 2650cc motor that Aaron mentioned would put out over 500 hp N/A. High revs and near perfect VE's allow such rediculous numbers, check out endyn's new K at 117% VE or their N/A 2 liter b series hybrid that puts out over 300 hp on pump gas and still passes emissions.

redwards

1psi on one turbo isnt the same as 1psi on a bigger or smaller turbo. you could be running 18psi on a 14b but if you ran a gt3582r or something bigger at 18psi it would not be the same. the gt35 would outflow the 14b indefinitely, and wouldn't require such pressure to produce the same result of the 14b at a higher pressure.

also yes use an intercooler, if you ever plan on upgrading you will have one less thing on your list to buy, not to mention it makes the whole setup more efficent and safer. detonation is a bitch!!