sparkplugs
09-Apr-2010, 02:09 AM
#1
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: mississauga
Posts: 55
sparkplugs
hey guys
I'm about to change the spark plugs on my 00 sir and was wondering what would be the best plug to use. right now I've got the ngk iridium but i heard the coppers work better? I tried to look around for ngk copper plugs but can't find them the only ones i find are the champion copper plus, should i stick with ngk double platinum? one more thing my ngk wire set is 4 years old they still work with no problems should i change them in case, whats the life span on then anyway?
thanks
I'm about to change the spark plugs on my 00 sir and was wondering what would be the best plug to use. right now I've got the ngk iridium but i heard the coppers work better? I tried to look around for ngk copper plugs but can't find them the only ones i find are the champion copper plus, should i stick with ngk double platinum? one more thing my ngk wire set is 4 years old they still work with no problems should i change them in case, whats the life span on then anyway?
thanks
09-Apr-2010, 09:27 AM
#3
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Where my car is.
Posts: 5,460
hey guys
I'm about to change the spark plugs on my 00 sir and was wondering what would be the best plug to use. right now I've got the ngk iridium but i heard the coppers work better? I tried to look around for ngk copper plugs but can't find them the only ones i find are the champion copper plus, should i stick with ngk double platinum? one more thing my ngk wire set is 4 years old they still work with no problems should i change them in case, whats the life span on then anyway?
thanks
I'm about to change the spark plugs on my 00 sir and was wondering what would be the best plug to use. right now I've got the ngk iridium but i heard the coppers work better? I tried to look around for ngk copper plugs but can't find them the only ones i find are the champion copper plus, should i stick with ngk double platinum? one more thing my ngk wire set is 4 years old they still work with no problems should i change them in case, whats the life span on then anyway?
thanks
Stick with the iridium plugs, they are better then copper plugs (will last longer). As for the wire set, how many km's do you have on that set? When was the last time you changed the cap and rotor?
09-Apr-2010, 06:03 PM
#5
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Posts: 1,074
I have an 00 SiR as well. 240,000kms and still using the original ignition wires! Also using iridium plugs.
Stick with the iridium plugs, they are better then copper plugs (will last longer). As for the wire set, how many km's do you have on that set? When was the last time you changed the cap and rotor?
Stick with the iridium plugs, they are better then copper plugs (will last longer). As for the wire set, how many km's do you have on that set? When was the last time you changed the cap and rotor?
10-Apr-2010, 08:28 PM
#7
i've actually seen NGK v-powers make more power than just about EVERY other plug out there while on the dyno, i've seen this in just about every d-series, b-series, h-series or f-series engine i've ever used them in.
Yes the iridiums last longer then the copper cores but they're more than double the price of the v-powers. A set of BKR6E, BKR6E-11 or BKR6E-N11 (the plugs you need for a b16) is literally $15 from part source, crappy tire, napa or carquest, but $8 per plug from Honda. They're the EXACT same plug in every way, shape and form to what you get from Honda, its just that the Honda plugs come in a box that say Honda and cost about double what they do from any other store.
The iridiums I believe are about $20 a plug, which is over 4 times the cost of the copper cores and they don't last 4 times longer, only about twice as long at 100,000kms compared to the copper cores 50,000kms.
I use the copper cores in my cars and ALL of my customers cars
Yes the iridiums last longer then the copper cores but they're more than double the price of the v-powers. A set of BKR6E, BKR6E-11 or BKR6E-N11 (the plugs you need for a b16) is literally $15 from part source, crappy tire, napa or carquest, but $8 per plug from Honda. They're the EXACT same plug in every way, shape and form to what you get from Honda, its just that the Honda plugs come in a box that say Honda and cost about double what they do from any other store.
The iridiums I believe are about $20 a plug, which is over 4 times the cost of the copper cores and they don't last 4 times longer, only about twice as long at 100,000kms compared to the copper cores 50,000kms.
I use the copper cores in my cars and ALL of my customers cars
11-Apr-2010, 01:06 PM
#9
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pfaff
Posts: 1,560
I would change those ASAP. Old ignition wires can put strain on your ignition coil. I bet if we scoped out your ignition before and after replacement of ignition wires we would see a HUGE difference.
Trust me man, change them.. they don't owe you anything from being on there that long.
11-Apr-2010, 02:13 PM
#10
The -11 and -N11 just means they come pre-gapped to .044" which is what they need to be gapped to.
12-Apr-2010, 10:55 AM
#12
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Where my car is.
Posts: 5,460
I certainly didn't pay $20 per plug when I bought iridiums... more like $10 per plug... If they were $20 per plug, I wouldn't have bought them...lol.
Last edited by MPR; 12-Apr-2010 at 10:59 AM.
12-Apr-2010, 10:58 AM
#13
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Where my car is.
Posts: 5,460
I would change those ASAP. Old ignition wires can put strain on your ignition coil. I bet if we scoped out your ignition before and after replacement of ignition wires we would see a HUGE difference.
Trust me man, change them.. they don't owe you anything from being on there that long.
Trust me man, change them.. they don't owe you anything from being on there that long.
How long do the ignition coils typically last? That's original as well.
12-Apr-2010, 04:16 PM
#14
call honda and ask what they're iridiums are worth, you'll fall off your chair.
even at $10 a plug, thats still more than double what the copper cores cost and they offer no real benefit other than supposedly lasting 100,000kms
even at $10 a plug, thats still more than double what the copper cores cost and they offer no real benefit other than supposedly lasting 100,000kms
12-Apr-2010, 04:50 PM
#15
Fyi:
Interesting read. NGK is recommending cooler plugs (CRX would be BCPR7E) and a slightly smaller gap if you are suffering poor mileage or performance with ethanol-blended fuels. They also recommend a 5 year/100,000km replacement interval on their ignition wires whether they look cracked or not. There is also some interesting info on high-flow air filters.
INFO: Spark Plug Gap and TSB - 3geez.com - One Site. Three Generations of Classic Accords
heres the info:
INFO: Spark Plug Gap and TSB - 3geez.com - One Site. Three Generations of Classic Accords
heres the info:
12-Apr-2010, 04:51 PM
#16
Here's some more info for you ! You can then decide what you want.
I personally use copper on my old Honda's.
Of Note: This article was taken from JDMcars.com
After reading many times about different plugs and seeing new ones come out, I finally decided to really look into each and every plug made by NGK & DENSO. Which are the OEM makers of your Honda Spark Plug.
For the best and optimum performance its always best to go with NGK plugs. We have heard numerous problems / reports about running anything else. NGK is the best for most performance applications (unless you have a specific tuner and application that has plugs meant for you.)
Most of the time, people seem to reccomend the NGK Copper Plugs, which they are referring to the NGK V-Power plug. Going on the fact that copper is the best heat conductor, its great price, and good performance. But does this make it the best? Are people just being swayed by the copper properties?
Some complain that the platinum makes the car a little tweaky, although some cars come with the platinum plugs from the factory. As well, the price is higher so people seem to go towards the copper instead. Why do these come on our cars from the factory? Do they hold performance or longevity or both?
Then iridium came out and further made people indecisive with their plug choice. Is it the more exotic metals, that make more performance? Do they hold more power , or again longer run times? Or is it something else altogether that these plugs go for.
The answer?? Read on.
Well, it's a toss up. It's almost impossible to answer those questions without specific dyno tuning tests of your car. All I can do is point out the simple facts and let you decide.
The main thing to know is: None of the spark plug electrodes are made the same. Therefore, metal has really nothing to do with it.
Don't let that throw you off though. It kind of does, Ill explain. It seems to go in a pattern, the more exotic the metal, the more exotic the design can be. So it could come down to the same factor we all have come to know and love. You get what you pay for.
Also (this is where the metal comes into play). If the metal used is more resistant to damage, then more radical designs can be implemented. Kinda like a computer chip manufacturer, they have to use more exotic metals in their new chips , because of the smaller more compact paths. Therefore they can achieve a better design that was impossible with more standard metals.
---
Now moving onto the review of each plug. We will have the NGK V-power (copper),
GP or G-Power Platinum , Double or Laser Platinum (sometimes oem platinum) & Iridium.
NGK V-power / Copper:
projected extended tip, V-power (v-grooved center electrode)
NGK's V-Power design directs the spark to the edge of the electrode where it develops more rapidly, this increases ignitability even in lean burn conditions. In addition the NGK V-Power plug has all the features of their traditional plugs including corrugated ribs, pure alumina silicate ceramic insulator for greater strength and better heat transfer, copper core and triple interior seal.
You can notice the larger 2.0mm standard center electrode size , but with a unique V design. V-Power spark plugs are a patented design by NGK to improve ignitability and reduce quenching. Ignitability is improved by directing the spark to to the edge of the center electrode thus exposing it to more of the air/fuel mixture. Quenching is reduced in much the same manner, drawing the spark to the edge of the center and ground electrodes reduces the surface area available to quench the spark.
NGK Gp or G-Power / Platinum:
projected extended tip, long life single platinum, platinum center electrode only, trapezoid (beveled cut) ground electrode
NGK G-Power offers the performance and durability of platinum at a competitive price. The center electrode is fine wire platinum for better starts, superior acceleration and better fuel economy. Trapezoid cut ground electrode to reduce quenching. This plug is basically an efficient plug.
See also the next plug for info on general platinum use.
NGK Double Platinum or Laser Platinum:
projected extended tip, extreme long life double platinum, fine point platinum on center electrode, platinum tip laser welded on ground electrode
NGK extreme life plug. By using the highest platinum content in the industry, NGK has created an extremely long life spark plug. Laser welded platinum tip on center electrode and platinum tip on the ground electrode. The center electrode is taper cut which aids in focusing the spark while reducing the voltage necessary to start the combustion process, this will provide better throttle response, improve efficiency and allow a smoother idle.
Platinum is a precious metal used for its long life and/or performance spark plugs. This is because of platinums high melting point which makes it useful in two ways. On a long life spark plug, a thin wafer of platinum is bonded at the firing point to the center electrode (and possibly ground electrode) solely so they dont wear as fast as a traditional plug. On a fine wire performance plug, the very tip of the center electrode is made of platinum so that the fine wire tip will last longer. Do not be fooled, all platinum plugs are not created equal, Platinum is a very expensive precious metal, a $2 platinum spark plug will not have much platinum in it, and therefore will not last as long as a $12 platinum spark plug. NGK platinum plugs contain the highest platinum content in the industry. Some platinum plugs have only the center electrode tipped with platinum, while others have both the center and ground electrodes platinum tipped. (By the way, it is still not suggested that platinum plugs be used on vehicles with nitrous injection. Thus far, there has been no problems reported regarding using iridium plugs with nitrous.)
NGK Iridium:
projected extended tip, fine wire (0.6mm) iridium center electrode, tapered cut ground electrode
NGK iridium plugs , the latest evolution of spark plug technology. The iridium center electrode is both stronger and harder than platinum. This allows NGK engineers to design an ultra-fine (0.6mm)center electrode reducing the voltage requirement for spark. This allows for a brighter, stronger spark from your existing ignition system. The ground electrode has a tapered cut at the firing end which reduces quenching for better flame core growth and increased ignitability. The combination of fine wire center electrode and tapered cut ground will increase performance, improve acceleration, and fuel efficiency
Iridium is a precious metal that is 6 times harder and 8 times stronger than platinum, it has a 1,200(=F) higher melting point than platinum and conducts electricity better. This makes it possible to create the finest wire center electrode ever. Prior till now, platinum had been favored for long life or performance spark plugs due to its high melting point, also the technology did not exist to machine and bond iridium on a spark plug electrode(at least in a cost effective manner). Iridium industrial spark plugs have been around for years, but still sells for over a hundred dollars per plug. Just now is the technology available to effectively use iridium in a spark plug for automotive applications. The strength, hardness and high melting point of iridium allows NGK to manufacture there iridium ultra-fine wire center electrode to 0.7mm. One of the finest firing points for a spark plug.
DENSO Iridium Spark Plug:
The denso Iridium Spark Plug. Almost being identical as the ngk iridium , except one thing. It has a .4mm center electrode. The NGK has .6mm for the prelude and probably most other honda's. So the same applies to this plug as the ngk iridium only its more enhanced.
OVERVIEW: Spark plugs with fine wire center electrodes operate better for two reasons, first, a smaller center electrode requires less voltage to jump the gap. This means fewer misfires, which will be seen in higher mileage and more horsepower. The second reason is smaller center electrodes reduces quenching. The smaller center electrodes have required exotic metals such as platinum or iridium so that they can still maintain (and sometimes surpass) the longevity of a traditional spark plug. NGK makes both platinum fine wire (1.1mm diameter center electrode) plugs and Iridium ultra-fine wire (0.7mm diameter center electrode), a traditional center electrode is typically 2.0 to 2.5mm.
Spark Plug Diagram:
Warning:
Some of you may or may not know this. But you are not supposed to check the gap on a platinum or iridium plug. Honda recomends that you dont do this. My theory is that you will embed metal onto the plug which will effect its properties and performance. Just pull out of the box and install.
I personally use copper on my old Honda's.
Of Note: This article was taken from JDMcars.com
After reading many times about different plugs and seeing new ones come out, I finally decided to really look into each and every plug made by NGK & DENSO. Which are the OEM makers of your Honda Spark Plug.
For the best and optimum performance its always best to go with NGK plugs. We have heard numerous problems / reports about running anything else. NGK is the best for most performance applications (unless you have a specific tuner and application that has plugs meant for you.)
Most of the time, people seem to reccomend the NGK Copper Plugs, which they are referring to the NGK V-Power plug. Going on the fact that copper is the best heat conductor, its great price, and good performance. But does this make it the best? Are people just being swayed by the copper properties?
Some complain that the platinum makes the car a little tweaky, although some cars come with the platinum plugs from the factory. As well, the price is higher so people seem to go towards the copper instead. Why do these come on our cars from the factory? Do they hold performance or longevity or both?
Then iridium came out and further made people indecisive with their plug choice. Is it the more exotic metals, that make more performance? Do they hold more power , or again longer run times? Or is it something else altogether that these plugs go for.
The answer?? Read on.
Well, it's a toss up. It's almost impossible to answer those questions without specific dyno tuning tests of your car. All I can do is point out the simple facts and let you decide.
The main thing to know is: None of the spark plug electrodes are made the same. Therefore, metal has really nothing to do with it.
Don't let that throw you off though. It kind of does, Ill explain. It seems to go in a pattern, the more exotic the metal, the more exotic the design can be. So it could come down to the same factor we all have come to know and love. You get what you pay for.
Also (this is where the metal comes into play). If the metal used is more resistant to damage, then more radical designs can be implemented. Kinda like a computer chip manufacturer, they have to use more exotic metals in their new chips , because of the smaller more compact paths. Therefore they can achieve a better design that was impossible with more standard metals.
---
Now moving onto the review of each plug. We will have the NGK V-power (copper),
GP or G-Power Platinum , Double or Laser Platinum (sometimes oem platinum) & Iridium.
NGK V-power / Copper:
projected extended tip, V-power (v-grooved center electrode)
NGK's V-Power design directs the spark to the edge of the electrode where it develops more rapidly, this increases ignitability even in lean burn conditions. In addition the NGK V-Power plug has all the features of their traditional plugs including corrugated ribs, pure alumina silicate ceramic insulator for greater strength and better heat transfer, copper core and triple interior seal.
You can notice the larger 2.0mm standard center electrode size , but with a unique V design. V-Power spark plugs are a patented design by NGK to improve ignitability and reduce quenching. Ignitability is improved by directing the spark to to the edge of the center electrode thus exposing it to more of the air/fuel mixture. Quenching is reduced in much the same manner, drawing the spark to the edge of the center and ground electrodes reduces the surface area available to quench the spark.
NGK Gp or G-Power / Platinum:
projected extended tip, long life single platinum, platinum center electrode only, trapezoid (beveled cut) ground electrode
NGK G-Power offers the performance and durability of platinum at a competitive price. The center electrode is fine wire platinum for better starts, superior acceleration and better fuel economy. Trapezoid cut ground electrode to reduce quenching. This plug is basically an efficient plug.
See also the next plug for info on general platinum use.
NGK Double Platinum or Laser Platinum:
projected extended tip, extreme long life double platinum, fine point platinum on center electrode, platinum tip laser welded on ground electrode
NGK extreme life plug. By using the highest platinum content in the industry, NGK has created an extremely long life spark plug. Laser welded platinum tip on center electrode and platinum tip on the ground electrode. The center electrode is taper cut which aids in focusing the spark while reducing the voltage necessary to start the combustion process, this will provide better throttle response, improve efficiency and allow a smoother idle.
Platinum is a precious metal used for its long life and/or performance spark plugs. This is because of platinums high melting point which makes it useful in two ways. On a long life spark plug, a thin wafer of platinum is bonded at the firing point to the center electrode (and possibly ground electrode) solely so they dont wear as fast as a traditional plug. On a fine wire performance plug, the very tip of the center electrode is made of platinum so that the fine wire tip will last longer. Do not be fooled, all platinum plugs are not created equal, Platinum is a very expensive precious metal, a $2 platinum spark plug will not have much platinum in it, and therefore will not last as long as a $12 platinum spark plug. NGK platinum plugs contain the highest platinum content in the industry. Some platinum plugs have only the center electrode tipped with platinum, while others have both the center and ground electrodes platinum tipped. (By the way, it is still not suggested that platinum plugs be used on vehicles with nitrous injection. Thus far, there has been no problems reported regarding using iridium plugs with nitrous.)
NGK Iridium:
projected extended tip, fine wire (0.6mm) iridium center electrode, tapered cut ground electrode
NGK iridium plugs , the latest evolution of spark plug technology. The iridium center electrode is both stronger and harder than platinum. This allows NGK engineers to design an ultra-fine (0.6mm)center electrode reducing the voltage requirement for spark. This allows for a brighter, stronger spark from your existing ignition system. The ground electrode has a tapered cut at the firing end which reduces quenching for better flame core growth and increased ignitability. The combination of fine wire center electrode and tapered cut ground will increase performance, improve acceleration, and fuel efficiency
Iridium is a precious metal that is 6 times harder and 8 times stronger than platinum, it has a 1,200(=F) higher melting point than platinum and conducts electricity better. This makes it possible to create the finest wire center electrode ever. Prior till now, platinum had been favored for long life or performance spark plugs due to its high melting point, also the technology did not exist to machine and bond iridium on a spark plug electrode(at least in a cost effective manner). Iridium industrial spark plugs have been around for years, but still sells for over a hundred dollars per plug. Just now is the technology available to effectively use iridium in a spark plug for automotive applications. The strength, hardness and high melting point of iridium allows NGK to manufacture there iridium ultra-fine wire center electrode to 0.7mm. One of the finest firing points for a spark plug.
DENSO Iridium Spark Plug:
The denso Iridium Spark Plug. Almost being identical as the ngk iridium , except one thing. It has a .4mm center electrode. The NGK has .6mm for the prelude and probably most other honda's. So the same applies to this plug as the ngk iridium only its more enhanced.
OVERVIEW: Spark plugs with fine wire center electrodes operate better for two reasons, first, a smaller center electrode requires less voltage to jump the gap. This means fewer misfires, which will be seen in higher mileage and more horsepower. The second reason is smaller center electrodes reduces quenching. The smaller center electrodes have required exotic metals such as platinum or iridium so that they can still maintain (and sometimes surpass) the longevity of a traditional spark plug. NGK makes both platinum fine wire (1.1mm diameter center electrode) plugs and Iridium ultra-fine wire (0.7mm diameter center electrode), a traditional center electrode is typically 2.0 to 2.5mm.
Spark Plug Diagram:
Warning:
Some of you may or may not know this. But you are not supposed to check the gap on a platinum or iridium plug. Honda recomends that you dont do this. My theory is that you will embed metal onto the plug which will effect its properties and performance. Just pull out of the box and install.
12-Apr-2010, 07:58 PM
#17
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: mississauga
Posts: 55
16-Apr-2010, 03:37 AM
#19
13-Jul-2010, 05:20 PM
#20
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 29
Hmmm, thanks for the info, Robb.
My 2005 Civic Special Edition is approaching 95K, and even though the manual calls for a 176K spark plug change interval, I think that's way too long and I'm going to replace them this week.
My local Honda dealer wants $18 a spark plug!!! Is there anyone here with a 2001-2005 Civic who used copper, or is the dealer one my best bet? Is the same dealer spark plug cheaper somewhere else? I'm not opposed to spending $72 on a set if they'll last 100K, but just wanted input from you guys before I grab them. Thanks!
My 2005 Civic Special Edition is approaching 95K, and even though the manual calls for a 176K spark plug change interval, I think that's way too long and I'm going to replace them this week.
My local Honda dealer wants $18 a spark plug!!! Is there anyone here with a 2001-2005 Civic who used copper, or is the dealer one my best bet? Is the same dealer spark plug cheaper somewhere else? I'm not opposed to spending $72 on a set if they'll last 100K, but just wanted input from you guys before I grab them. Thanks!
