Engine Problem - Spark Plug Condition?
23-Sep-2008, 02:13 PM
#1
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Engine Problem - Spark Plug Condition?
Hey Everyone,
I've been posting on here for a problem I've been having when accelerating at low rpm. When I try to accelerate at low rpm the car studders and hesitates and I have an extreme poss of power. It only happens when the engine is hot and it is completely random. Sometimes when idling the engine will studder for a second and then be fine...every once in a while though. I've been trying to figure out what the problem is for a long time now and I need some help...I've replaced the distributer cap and rotor and put new plugs in about 2000kms ago. Here are pictures of the spark plugs please let me know if you think they are ok because I can't see anything wrong myself:
from drivers side cylinder to passengers side
I'm trying to figure out whether it is a fuel or spark or eletrical problem and so far I cant figure it out. Either way it is extremely frustrating and I need your guys's help please! Also, could the MAP sensor have anything to do with it?
Thanks,
Jamie
I've been posting on here for a problem I've been having when accelerating at low rpm. When I try to accelerate at low rpm the car studders and hesitates and I have an extreme poss of power. It only happens when the engine is hot and it is completely random. Sometimes when idling the engine will studder for a second and then be fine...every once in a while though. I've been trying to figure out what the problem is for a long time now and I need some help...I've replaced the distributer cap and rotor and put new plugs in about 2000kms ago. Here are pictures of the spark plugs please let me know if you think they are ok because I can't see anything wrong myself:
from drivers side cylinder to passengers side
I'm trying to figure out whether it is a fuel or spark or eletrical problem and so far I cant figure it out. Either way it is extremely frustrating and I need your guys's help please! Also, could the MAP sensor have anything to do with it?
Thanks,
Jamie
23-Sep-2008, 02:33 PM
#2
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Also, would it have anything to do with the fuel main relay? because I had it out and re-soldered it because it was shutting off when I would start it and a couple of the pins were dry. It was doing the studdering thing before that but I was just wondering... I just dont want to start replacing everything before I find the problem thats all! haha If anyone has any suggestions as to tests I could do let me know!
Thanks,
Jamie
Thanks,
Jamie
23-Sep-2008, 04:05 PM
#4
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My educated guess would be a faulty distributor sensor. Or possibly a coil or igniter starting to take a crap on you.
Unforunately you have to test these parts when they are acting up. If this happens occasionally, try swapping with a friend and see if that fixes the problem.
Unforunately you have to test these parts when they are acting up. If this happens occasionally, try swapping with a friend and see if that fixes the problem.
23-Sep-2008, 10:34 PM
#5
OMG, finally a decent smart 'help me' post!! thank you for not being retarded. also, ignore gio.
the plugs look ok. there is nothing to indicate a prolongued problem, that is to say, there is no obvious damage. but it's always best to pull the plugs immediately after the problem occurs, since if you wait till later, normal wear under proper running conditions will eventually cover up any evidence of the problem.
I'd remove the fuel pump fuse and inspect the condition of the spark while cranking. what you are looking for is a nice healthy blue spark, not a weak yellow spark. if the spark is yellow, it indicates a bad distributor (coil). fyi, the coil/ignitor are internal to the dizzy. as for the dizzy sensor that chris alluded to, he's talking about the CKF (CKY?? i forget which is which... been a while) sensor which indicates the position of the camshaft relative to the crank, which is measured by the CKY (CKF?) sensor. Now, if you're talking about a 92-95 civic, then ignore what i just said about the reference of CKY to CKF sensors, since that only applies to OBD2+ cars. yours would just have the one sensor in the dizzy I think (not too sure, never had a 5th gen).
anywhoooo indicate your car/model, or engine code, and I'll post up test procedure for your car. but as chris also already said, the parts HAVE TO BE tested when the condition occurs, which as you pointed out is unpredictable. see if someone has a spare dizzy they can lend you for testing purposes, offer to give them collateral.
the plugs look ok. there is nothing to indicate a prolongued problem, that is to say, there is no obvious damage. but it's always best to pull the plugs immediately after the problem occurs, since if you wait till later, normal wear under proper running conditions will eventually cover up any evidence of the problem.
I'd remove the fuel pump fuse and inspect the condition of the spark while cranking. what you are looking for is a nice healthy blue spark, not a weak yellow spark. if the spark is yellow, it indicates a bad distributor (coil). fyi, the coil/ignitor are internal to the dizzy. as for the dizzy sensor that chris alluded to, he's talking about the CKF (CKY?? i forget which is which... been a while) sensor which indicates the position of the camshaft relative to the crank, which is measured by the CKY (CKF?) sensor. Now, if you're talking about a 92-95 civic, then ignore what i just said about the reference of CKY to CKF sensors, since that only applies to OBD2+ cars. yours would just have the one sensor in the dizzy I think (not too sure, never had a 5th gen).
anywhoooo indicate your car/model, or engine code, and I'll post up test procedure for your car. but as chris also already said, the parts HAVE TO BE tested when the condition occurs, which as you pointed out is unpredictable. see if someone has a spare dizzy they can lend you for testing purposes, offer to give them collateral.
24-Sep-2008, 07:11 AM
#7
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Hey!
First off, thanks for the great help...please keep helping me with this issue! haha The car is a 92 hatch but it has a crx si motor D16A1 with a d16Z6 head...Ok with testing the spark by the fuse...how exactly do I do that? remove the fuse and crank the engine? Anyways yesterday I removed the plugs and took pictures, removed the dizzy cap and inspected then put everything back together and the car ran perfectly yesterday, not a problem....Then this morning it started doing the same thing again. The part that bugs me is why do all of the problems occur when the engine is hot and not when I first start it? Please let me know of the testing proceedure!
Thanks again for all of your help!
Jamie
First off, thanks for the great help...please keep helping me with this issue! haha The car is a 92 hatch but it has a crx si motor D16A1 with a d16Z6 head...Ok with testing the spark by the fuse...how exactly do I do that? remove the fuse and crank the engine? Anyways yesterday I removed the plugs and took pictures, removed the dizzy cap and inspected then put everything back together and the car ran perfectly yesterday, not a problem....Then this morning it started doing the same thing again. The part that bugs me is why do all of the problems occur when the engine is hot and not when I first start it? Please let me know of the testing proceedure!
Thanks again for all of your help!
Jamie
24-Sep-2008, 11:16 AM
#14
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Hey!
Thanks alot!! I will try some of those tests and let you know!! Another thing I just noticed is that the check engine light came on today and everything worked fine except V-tec wasn't engaging...but the car drove fine...no hesitation or anything....so it is probably something to do with the dizzy like you said! The check engine light is off now and v-tec's working again...it does that sometimes...I'm wondering if it's connected to the hesitation??? just a thought!
Thanks again and I'll let you know,
Jamie
Thanks alot!! I will try some of those tests and let you know!! Another thing I just noticed is that the check engine light came on today and everything worked fine except V-tec wasn't engaging...but the car drove fine...no hesitation or anything....so it is probably something to do with the dizzy like you said! The check engine light is off now and v-tec's working again...it does that sometimes...I'm wondering if it's connected to the hesitation??? just a thought!
Thanks again and I'll let you know,
Jamie
24-Sep-2008, 04:04 PM
#16
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Pull the code as B said.
To further add to what Bruno stated.. when checking for weak spark, the spark doesn't HAVE to be blue. It can be white/yellow. The colour of the spark can be mis-leading. But as long as it's bright it should be strong. If its a faded orange and not very bright then usually it is weak.
Now, how I personally check for weak spark is (if you dont have a spark tester, which im sure you don't) I would take an old spark plug and open the gap up a bunch. Roughly 3 times larger than OE spec. Shove it in the wire, ground the plug and see if the spark jumps it. Keep in mind, now the brightness/colour of the spark doesnt matter. If the spark jumps 9/10 the spark is strong. If it doesnt jump, you know it's weak.
Hope this helps.
And holy **** Bruno.. you pulled all the stops on this one eh.
To further add to what Bruno stated.. when checking for weak spark, the spark doesn't HAVE to be blue. It can be white/yellow. The colour of the spark can be mis-leading. But as long as it's bright it should be strong. If its a faded orange and not very bright then usually it is weak.
Now, how I personally check for weak spark is (if you dont have a spark tester, which im sure you don't) I would take an old spark plug and open the gap up a bunch. Roughly 3 times larger than OE spec. Shove it in the wire, ground the plug and see if the spark jumps it. Keep in mind, now the brightness/colour of the spark doesnt matter. If the spark jumps 9/10 the spark is strong. If it doesnt jump, you know it's weak.
Hope this helps.
And holy **** Bruno.. you pulled all the stops on this one eh.
24-Sep-2008, 04:45 PM
#17
a well thought out question posted by a person capable of putting in work deserves help. most of the time ppl who post i just don't think they have the tools/know-how to DIY so it's not worth my time answering.
25-Sep-2008, 08:18 AM
#18
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Ok thanks!
Oh so even though v-tec doesn't work when the check engine light is on doesn't necessarily mean that there is something wrong with v-tec? interesting...so where do you recommend I start with all of this testing? because you gave me so much info (thank-you very much by the way)..In addition, I am getting really crappy fuel mileage so it has to be a spark problem and not a fuel problem..please give me some adivce as to where I should start to try and figure out what the problem is!
Thanks again for all the help I really appreciate it!
Jamie
Oh so even though v-tec doesn't work when the check engine light is on doesn't necessarily mean that there is something wrong with v-tec? interesting...so where do you recommend I start with all of this testing? because you gave me so much info (thank-you very much by the way)..In addition, I am getting really crappy fuel mileage so it has to be a spark problem and not a fuel problem..please give me some adivce as to where I should start to try and figure out what the problem is!
Thanks again for all the help I really appreciate it!
Jamie
25-Sep-2008, 09:00 AM
#19
well i always start with the cheapest/simplest procedures (ie. something that won't require new bolts or gaskets if i remove it for testing), then i replace 'normal wear and tear' items since they eventually need to be replaced anyways, then finally test the more difficult things that require teardown or specialty tools or are high risk for seized bolts. that being said, there are standard test flowcharts in the manuals that indicate likelyhood of problem areas given a problem. the fact it happens when it's hot would actually indicate a closed loop problem. closed loop operation used additional sensors to trim fuel delivery accodring to running conditions (engine temp, ambient temp, elevation, load, oxygen content, etc.). You said it's getting really bad mileage. How bad are we talking about? How long is your 'normal' drive... ie. do you drive really short distances most of the time, or do you commute? That will tell us if the fuel consumption is related to your loss of power (the fuel consumption could be dragging brakes for example). Is the car a 5 spd or auto?
1st check your CEL code. Then
If your average drive is really short (ie. before closed loop conditions happen) then test all the open loop sensors (typically just the coolant temp, intake air temp, MAP, maybe TPS). That's all really easy to do and free, and would be related to the fuel consumption. perform tests on page 23-100 and 23-101 in the pics above.
If your average drive is long, then I'd still test all the open loop sensors 1st since the coolant temp sensor has a lot to do with how much fuel the ECU dumps in. In cold weather, cars need a lot of fuel to run properly, so an ECT sensor that indicates the block is at -50 celsius will cause too much fuel to be dumped. Only thing is I'm not sure if civics use a single coolant temp sensor for both the dash gauge and the ECU or not. Some cars have 2 separate sensors. Check the service manual for details (i just don't have the time to check).
Report back.
1st check your CEL code. Then
If your average drive is really short (ie. before closed loop conditions happen) then test all the open loop sensors (typically just the coolant temp, intake air temp, MAP, maybe TPS). That's all really easy to do and free, and would be related to the fuel consumption. perform tests on page 23-100 and 23-101 in the pics above.
If your average drive is long, then I'd still test all the open loop sensors 1st since the coolant temp sensor has a lot to do with how much fuel the ECU dumps in. In cold weather, cars need a lot of fuel to run properly, so an ECT sensor that indicates the block is at -50 celsius will cause too much fuel to be dumped. Only thing is I'm not sure if civics use a single coolant temp sensor for both the dash gauge and the ECU or not. Some cars have 2 separate sensors. Check the service manual for details (i just don't have the time to check).
Report back.
25-Sep-2008, 10:00 AM
#20
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Hey,
I'm getting almost 80km less per tank and most of my driving is short distances (10-15 mins) at a time. It's a 5spd as well. To check my CEL code I would have to take it to a mechanic right?
Thanks for all the help and I will keep you posted!
Jamie
I'm getting almost 80km less per tank and most of my driving is short distances (10-15 mins) at a time. It's a 5spd as well. To check my CEL code I would have to take it to a mechanic right?
Thanks for all the help and I will keep you posted!
Jamie
