PULOVR

Probably not much, since....

1. they might be confiscated vehicles

2. we already paid for them with our tax $'s.

PULOVR

Gee, and I always thought a stop sign was ment for STOPPING.


Try and think of it from the cop's point of veiw. If you can't even obey a SIMPLY traffic rule like stopping at a stop sign or traffic light, then what makes you think they would take pity on you, and believe that you would obey other rules of the road? You deserved to get raped with every ticket a cop is capably of giving you (imo).

And to take it even further, it would give them an excuse to give you a BS ticket for simple infractions, and also to search your car for other infractions (which they WOULD find) .

Did I also forget to mention the waste of time and effort you would cause the tax payers, if you DID deceided to fight these "bs" tickets in court, and the cop showed up?

You want me to go on?


And some of you guys wonder WHY cops seem to ALWAYS single out the sport compact ethusiust, and why we pay higher insurance rates. It's because of the attitude some of you have to the laws of the road. They are there to protect EVERYONE......but if you **** off a cop, what makes you think they would be nice to you? You would do the exact same thing iin his shoes, if an arogant know-it-all kid pissed you off.


Rant over.....

My 2C's.

PULOVR

More "bs" out of your mouth. Do you ever stop and listen to what you say sometimes?


In Japan, there is NO real law the makes the removal of older cars off the road mandatory.

The actual law is......

If the owners take good car of the car, and keeps the car in good working order......both visually, and mechanically, and they can afford the fee's associated with keeping it on the road (in some cases up to $2000 Canadian in emission/safty related fees per period), then they can keep the car on the road. But most people over there can't justify paying that kind of cash for a car that is almost 10 years old, or even younger than 10 years in some cases. And if we had to buy a new car every 5 years (like you say you would), then we would ALL pay higher insurance rates on a newer vehicle. Forgot about that didn't you?



Some more errors....


The Autobaun does have a speed limit. And in some areas, it's actually 90 km's, or even lower than that.


The beating and coruption thing.....gee, how many cops were involved, and how many police officers in total are there again? (as case of a few bad apples.....like almost every profession out there)


Did you know that there are roads in Europe (Portugal as an example), that have more death per streach of highway, than the city of NY has murders in a year? Yep, sounds alot safer to me.

They also have lower safety standards for thier cars over there......but you seemed to forget that point too. That's why they don't ship certain makes and models over here....they would never meet our saftey standards.

The highway's speed is also there to proctect the "law abiding" speeders. How would you like it if you were doing 140 on the 401, and some granny pulled in front of you doing 100?

The speed is set the way it is to protect everyone. Also, some of the "best" drivers, are also some of the more over cofidant ones on the road, and in more occasions than not, THEY are the ones that caused the accident in the first place.


Done my rant on this thread.


BTW, it's "Italy", not itally.

PULOVR

And yeah, I alkready know I made smoe speeelling mistkaes oto.

Notorious

TauMax

Yes... I agree with you.

But my point is that stop signs are not always needed.

It's kind of like using a sledge-hammer when a little hammer would do.

Think of it this way.
Suppose you work in this company, and they impose this "rule" that everyone must make a complete stop at intersections of hallways before proceeding. For blind hallways, or hallways where heavy machinery might travel this makes sense. But for hallway intersections where the walls are glass and you can see people coming from a distance then wouldn't you consider stoping just for the sake of stopping to be stupid? Now suppose that there are hallway monitors that try to catch people and fine them if they make "rolling stops" at these safe intersections. IE they setup and wait there because they now that they'll generate revenue? Wouldn't you feel cheated? Or would you feel that you deserve to get raped by every ticket the hall monitor gave you??

There's a difference between using fines as deterence for true public safety, and pure revenue generation.

imported_~ILLEST CIV~

TauMax


again.....no offence....and none taken throughout........just a discussion.......

But i totally disagree with u.............any provincially inacted law or regulation......makes sense to me.....and is there for a reason......if u change one stop sign.....ppl in other areas will get outta hand and be like well i want this changed and this........u can't go changin **** around..........and i know that'z nto what ur saying.......ur just saying that oh some things are just gay or retarded........but maybe when they made that stop sign it was for a reason.....like right now around my area......they have put up stupid lights...no need for them...but if u think about it......hard......the one subdivision needs them in the morning....cause traffic is soo heavy getting out for them...that they need that light to assist them

it'z all about traffic control....and helping for the smooth flow.....

that light for that subdivision is gay to me...and i honestly don't like it at all.....cause it inconviences me when someone pulls up to the light and i get the red........lol but it'z soo he can get out.......and leave . . .

xenon_194

I didn't know about the other cars, damn, gotta be more careful, but I tend to be safe with my driving. Just have to watch out for the ***** that don't know how to drive. Windsor cops are usually kewl, never ran into any problems. Hahahaha, u had problem with LaSalle cops, I guess they wouldn't really hassel me since half of their kids went to school with me...

Buddah

If you're from the area of 401/Steeles to Markham Rd./Steeles, there is one dark blue GMC Jimmy with dark tints all the way around...it's usually used to check plates...infared cameras are mounted on top. Although I haven't seen it pull over anyone before. The ones that you should be weary of are the dark blue unmarked Suburbans with dark tints...most likely than not are ETF units (Emergency Task Force). They also have marked ETF units too with the usual paint scheme and lights on top...more noticable are the great big lettering markings on the rear side windows saying Emergency Task Force...if you got one of any of these following you or pacing you, you're in trouble...big time.

Cheers.
Buddah.

PULOVR

At least I'm not the only one that see's he's missing the point.



Here's a perfect, but sad example.

In my area, was a road that didn't have a 4 way stop....only a 2 way. A few years back, 2 kids were severly hurt, and one later died, because cars in the area were so used to not stopping, that they didn't even bother looking to see if the intersection was clear. There's nothing near the intersection that would of blocked the view of a driver. The sad part is that area home owners COMPLAINED that something like this COULD happen, and it finally DID.

It took the life of a little kid to change the minds of the the higher ups.

So when I hear people like you say what you say TauMax, it makes me a little upset, to say the least.


The rules of the road are there for a reason. If you can't follow them, then you don't deserve the privilege of driving a vehicle imo.

PULOVR

I have a little story that a cop friend once told me.......I'll try to keep it short.


There was an intersection that people hardly EVER stopped at....they would just slowly roll through the stop sign. Home owners in the area started to get fed up, and complained to the police.

The very next day, a traffic cop was sent out to investigate. He has just turned off the car after parking it in a way, for him to see the intersection in question. He noticed a car roll up to the stop sign, but the driver didn't stop....they just rolled through it. The cop was shocked. Hadn't the driver seen the cop? Were they blind?

The cop quickly took off after the driver. About 1/2 a KM down the road, the cop pulled over the driver.


Here's how the conversation went. (don't get mad)






Cop..... "do you know why I pulled you over?"


TauMax....."nope."


Cop...."well, I pulled you over because you didn't stop at that stop sign back there."


TauMax....."yes I did."


Cop...."no you didn't."


TauMax...."YES, I did."


Cop...."NO, you didn't. You came to the sign, slowed down a bit, and then continued. You DIDN'T stop once."


TauMax....."what's the big deal....slow down...stop.....same thing."


Cop...."can I ask you something?"


TauMax....."sure."


Cop...."see this billy club I have on my belt?"


TauMax......"yep, what about it?"


Cop....."say I was hitting you over the head with it......would you want me to slow down, or stop?"

imported_gatherer

I will fully agree that a intersection with stop signs PART of the reason stop signs are there is to determine right of way

however

the biggest reason stop signs are there is to break up traffic flow and slow traffic down .... as well as make side roads not appealling to people in a rush.... and this all saves lives...

see if side roads were without stop signs what happens? well anyone in a rush would use them to avoid main road traffic... and would probably speed the result is more fatalies from cars hitting kids and stuff...

so they put in stop signs. what they do is determine right of way .... which by the way can be determined without any signs.... there are rules for right of way at intersections without any signs... so this point negates the prime reason that they are used.

stop signs slow traffic down .... period . if a person likes to speed on side streets they will more often then not still have to slow down and stop for a stop sign.... this helps prevent super fast speeding in residential areas. ok so what if the dude wants to ignore stop signs? which he could do if he wanted to. well then the fines and monetary punishment step in ... fines for speeding and failure to come to a stop and the price of going fast jumps.

see in my nieghbourhood there was an intersection where when I was in grade 5 there was all way stop. well a friend was J walking and got hit by a crazy speeding driver...broke the dude's arm. well a few months later an all way stop was put in. to my knowledge, (and since I've have lots of brothers and sisters still attending that school and someone being hit by a car would be big news that they'd just love to share) there has not been another accident like that.

why? because stop signs slow down the flow of traffic and make side roads a less viable option for idiots in a rush.

I will argee that traffic laws are for the lowest common denominator but that doesn't mean your above them by scanning ahead.

does that mean I don't have any speed limits because I race and have better knowledge of what my car can do and therefore can drive faster then everyone else. hell no I have the same limitations in terms of rules as the next guy....

when I went to Alberta this summer for the nationals in certain prarie provinences I tested where the speed governor was on my car. doing 190 on the trans canada I still had control over the car. but would a cop have torn me a new one had I been caught? you bet. would I have deserved it? you bet.

performing a lane change on the highway and comoing to a complete stop at an intersection cannopt be compared here's why. a lane change on the highway while done at 100 km/h is done at speed with the surrounding traffic all the traffic is traveling in the same direction. when traffic is travelling in the same direction the speed relative to other cars going at the same speed is 0 km/h (I'm not explaining the theories of relativity look it up)therefore changing lanes on a highway is done at slow speeds... if I'm going 100 and your going 120 the relative speed your doing compared to me is 20km/h pretty slow eh?

with a stop sign traffic is moving in one of 4 directions. a stop is required to allow that movement if it is not your turn to go in your direction. comparing relative speed here.... if I'm goiing through an intersection and your going through an intersection in the opposite direction (both going the limit of 40km/h in this case) and I get hit on the side forcing me into your traffic lane and we collide the relitive speed between our cars is 80km/h ....

thats a lot bigger difference in speed then a highway... is it not? the result is more damage .... it's relative speed that determines extent of damage not overall speed (unless you hit a guard rail or something not moving then overall speed is relative speed

going back to the above example when I got hit say the dude was going at 40km/h in his direction ... which was at a right angle to the direction of travel I was going the result is a relative speed of 40km/h

I hope this helps explain the differnce between an all way stop intersection and changing lanes on a highway.

I also hope that if you are caught rolling through a stop sign and get charged you don't complain about it since it is illegal to roll through and I hope you understand this.

stop signs when obeyed properly slow traffic down ....(you have to come to a stop duh!) and regulate traffic flow in such a way that lives are saved. have fun and be safe out there

imported_~ILLEST CIV~

gatherer
PULOVR


Well Put.....Well Put

imported_gatherer

not really a fair comparasion. this is comparing apples to oranges...

although given the choice I'd rather be in new york based on that.

but traffic fatalies cannot be compared to murder....

now if you said something like on certain roads in europe their are more traffic fatalies per kilometer then there are on all the roads in ontario... thats a fair comparasion being as your comparing traffic fatalies to traffic fatalies....

murder for the most part is planned

while traffic fatalies for the most part are cases for conditions becoming beyond what the driver has the skill to control.

TypeR-wanabeGrl

Not sure if this is true or not but I heard that on the 407, the cops use un-marked silver Mustangs.

Chigga1

i heard Peel regional has got some cars, like GSR's and ****, to go along with street racing in the summer!

imported_~ILLEST CIV~

That is true....they have civics etc.....and they line up.....with the racer.....once the other guy or guys who are racing take off, the cop takes off as well...radios it in......for undercovers to pull in.....down the street from the location......the cop just drives away like he got away........that'z what i've been hearing....

sounds like a movie thing....lol but supposedly that'z what has been taken place...and has last summer.....like the ending of last summer it came into effect..........

bdotdan

isn't that entrapment?

imported_~ILLEST CIV~

How would u know though?...........u wouldn't know if it were a cop......and u would have no evidence of the fact.........correct?.....thus not entrapment..........we were debating about this in our INTRO TO LEGAL SYSTEMS CLASS last semester........there is one thing that doesn't make it entrapment......however i'm not sure....i think the statement i made about that scenerio are a bit off from what it really is....or what is really done

Nova_Dust

Well, to the original question regarding unmarked vehicles, I personally never "really" look for one on the road. I obey traffic signs, change lanes with signals, "try" not to speed (well, not sure if you guys notice but 40km/hr is REALLY, REALLY slow and I feel like I am pushing the car) ...etc.

I do all those because I know when I drive badly, someone ahead or behind me will be affected, and that’s no good. I do things with a clear conscience and notion that “respect others the way you wish to be respected”.

Of course, I do lose my temper and become a road rager once in a while. I am no saint, I ain’t perfect, but I try my best to be nice to everyone else on the road.

I do 100 on the right lane on highways (the slowest lane) and if people tailgate me, I don’t give it a **** because there is a reason why the left lane is open for passing. In respect to that, I don’t tailgate people on the right lane doing 100. I signal when I turn because I don’t like it when people don’t. I stop at stop sign to wait for my turn and when people cut you off, you would get pissed (the ones that don’t stop fully).

I obey laws and that’s why 9 out of 10 times, I don’t look for any unmarked vehicles (that 1 time would be me doing 140 on 401 when I need to pee or else I will wet myself all over the car). I don’t need to worry about being pulled over. It is like I know I am not driving a stolen vehicle, not doing drug trafficking, didn’t kill anyone so why should I be afraid to walk under daylight and see if I am being followed or be aware of law enforcement?

As for not doing a full stop at the stop sign, it is not whether you think you can see something or be any more cautious then others but rather, obeying a simple law that is applied to every driver in this country. Last time I checked, during the driver’s test, if you answer “I think a rolling stop is good enough for a stop sign”, chances are, you won’t pass the test. Am I correct?

So if you weren’t taught to do a rolling stop at the stop sign, why do it now? Same thing apply to speeding and that’s why, when you speed, you get a ticket after being caught. So here is another stupid theory:

You are only guilty when you get caught…

In theory, that is true. But in reality, it is fundamentally wrong. Small crime, small offense, big crime, big offense, at the end of the day, it is all bad things. Stop sign is waste of gas? Well shifting pass 2500 RPM is waste of gas, doing 40km with 1st gear is waste of gas, stop ‘n’ go in a traffic is waste of gas…. I don’t’ think trying to save that 50 cents on initial 1st gear is worth a 50 dollar ticket. But then again, I don’t know how much a stop sign ticket is since I obey my rules. The moment you roll over that stop sign you know you did something wrong. So why live with that little guilt when you can live without any?

For your own good, just obey the laws.