FiveO

Setting people up so their cars break down early only to be fixed under warranty doesn't seem like a very good business model.

FiveO

Makes no difference. One of my vehicles is a pick-up truck. It actually sees the most km a year now, somewhere just under 12,000 km per year these days. In previous years I used it a lot more though, and that 7-year-old truck currently has 200,000 km on it.

A lot of that mileage includes heavy towing of a 4,000 kg camping trailer. It also included a lot of dirty off-road use. The oil in that truck was never changed before the 12,000 km mark. At 200,000 it still runs strong with no knocking or ticking, and uses only 1 liter in top-ups between oil changes.

More frequent oil changes are simply not necessary any more. It might make you feel good to do otherwise, makes for an excuse to work on the car, but unless you're racing your car or otherwise abusing your engine it is complete overkill.

civicEJ1

iTrader: (2)

i didnt say before warranty

civicEJ1

iTrader: (2)

12000 km a year? 2 oil changes? thats a big deal to u ? just change it who noes u might get 400k outta ur truck

FiveO

That 8k interval is based on severe service use of your car. Short trips in cold temperatures falls under severe service, and for some reason, probably because of Canada's diverse range of severe cold climatic regions, Honda decided to lump the entire Canadian market in as one big severe service region.

Your car's engine and drive train is no different than that of a Honda marketed for use in New York State, Michigan or Ohio, and the climates of those markets are all quite similar to Ontario's. The fuels and oils used in all of these markets, Ontario included, are also the same.

The service interval for a 2004 Civic used in normal service conditions is 12,000 km for all US Hondas, including New York, Michigan, and Ohio. https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/...404O00136B.pdf

If Honda can recommend this for our neighbouring states, it will also be safe to use the same normal service interval for a southern Ontario car used under normal service conditions. It might be different if we lived on the prairies or in the Yukon with their harsher climate, but we don't.

If your use includes primarily short trips of 8 km or less in summer, or 16 km or less in winter, then you should be using severe service maintenance intervals, and that is every 8,000 km or 6 months. That is probably the appropriate service interval for many Toronto Honda owners who do primarily short trips within the city.

Your friend however, at 3,000 km per month usage, doesn't fall into the primarily short trip category, and the service adviser recognized that.

FiveO

The engine is still strong. As long as the rest of the truck doesn't rust away or get run into, I've no worries about getting to that 400 km mark with oil changes only at 12,000 km or 1 year apart..

The cost of an oil change isn't an issue. Unnecessarily premature oil changes provides no discernible benefit, so why bother?

civicEJ1

iTrader: (2)

true, but what if my "friend" couldnt helpp it but have to travel 200 Km a day for work (92 km from markham to oakville 92 km back)

thats roughly under 4k a month.......u gonna tell him to wait until the oil burns off every time to change it? assuming he only has 1 car like a lot of people

FiveO

Huh?

Your "friend" would be hitting the mileage limit before the time limit for service intervals, nothing more, nothing less.

Service intervals are based on time or mileage, whichever comes first. When it's due, it's due. How many cars you have has nothing to do with it.

civicEJ1

iTrader: (2)

ok then so then if u do 6000KM in 3 months? why not change it

Cynikal.Mindset

cuz service interval is 8k

s2000cr

So you are complaining you had to wait for a free oil change? Sounds like beggers can't be choosers...

thrill_house

That would explain why my maintenace light in my 02's civic only comes on every 12,000, I was wondering why that was.

thrill_house

With the way alot of people drive their civics I definatley think waiting till 12,000kms may be stretching it a bit lol!

BlitzSix

Oh please. I already said this, but if he actual wanted to go by your oil change interval schedule, he would say, come back when you hit 12000 km. He would NOT say come back in February (which is what it said on the sticker, 4 months away), regardless of mileage. He said that because he was trying to get out of doing an oil change (because it was free), and lied and ignored the "whichever comes first" on the sticker, simple as that. If you believe in the long service interval, that's fine, but don't try to tell me that the reason that the tech was trying to get out of doing it was because he was following that schedule. He clearly wasn't. Not really sure why you seem to be 100% positive that he is such a great guy looking out for everyone's best interests. I'm sure if the oil change wasn't free but a normal appointment he would be glad to do it and tell my friend to come back in another 6k with a smile.

And, again, if your maintenance schedule is the "right" one for southern Ontario, then why does the dealership write it up for 6k / 4 months in advance then? Surely they don't assume that every single customer uses their car in a "severe" manner...they should be writing it up to follow the "normal" schedule, no ?

Maybe if you changed it at a more regular rate it wouldn't burn oil?

FiveO

Reading the info you gave, it sounds like he extrapolated the time expected to reach the 12,000 km point and suggested your friend return at that time.


Low mileage cars driven low miles in the city by city dwellers probably do fall under the severe service category. You know, frequent cold engine starts, short trips, stop and go driving.

Also, when oil changes are not free and paid for by the customer instead, it's a cash cow that pays the bills for a lot of shops.


Burning oil? Give your head a shake. Using 1 litre to top up in a 12,000 km stretch isn't not even close to being considered excessive consumption.

FiveO

Or 12,000 km. That sort of mileage implies a highway-driven car which would put you in the normal service conditions category, and that lets you take advantage of extended oil change intervals.

BlitzSix

I really don't know why you're on the service advisor's ***** here, but all I wrote in the post was that he told her to come back EXACTLY 4 months from her last one (which is what they write on the sticker...coincidence ?). Please tell me how you got from that statement that he said that because of the other maintenance schedule that you are referring to. If that was the case, he would have said "You are using it mostly highway, come back when you hit 12k". It would be stupid to say come back in February anyways because for all he knows she used the car a lot these couple months and will use it less later. Or maybe she'll use the car even more, etc. It makes zero sense to just flat out assume that she will hit 12k in Feb, and tell her to come back then instead of saying the milage if he wanted to follow that interval. And for all he knew, she was a pizza delivery driver and did all city driving with cold starts all the time. He did NOT ask her about how her car was used, etc. He was simply trying to get out of a free oil change, which you can't seem to understand.

And besides, even if you are right (which you aren't), then what he did is still unethical because a dealership shouldn't tell someone to service their car sooner than required just because it makes them money... Then what, it's perfectly fine for a dealer not to bother replace a part that's pretty worn when it's on warranty since it costs them $ and doesn't bring anything in, but recommend that the part in the EXACT same condition be replaced if it's on another vehicle that's out of warranty? Either way he's doing something wrong..

PS. I change my oil every 5k/4 months on my 17 year old Civic with 250000 km, and it burns ZERO oil. I literally don't notice even 1 millemeter drop on the dipstick in between changes, and I always check it just before I go and get it changed. Milage is pretty low for the year, so it's not all highway at all, in fact it's 80% city. So yeah, while your litre is not groundbreaking it's not exactly perfect for a car that's only 7 years old and has 200k on it.

BlitzSix

And, just out of complete curiosity, since you say you have no problem with spending $ on maintain the car, why not shell out a few extra bucks for synthetic oil if you're going to wait so long to change it? It offers much better protection in every way possible.

starboy869

I change the oil on my 2005 Honda Civic with the D17A2 every 10,000km with mobil 1 5w20 and whatever I'm in the mood for oil filter. Honda filter is like $9, Fram $12, or K&N for $14.

Btw I get my mobil 1 from WalMart in the USA. A 4.5L jug is like $22.97 vs $40 here.

I take my toyota mini van back to the dealer for oil changes. $40 ish vs me freezing my nuts to my driveway trying to save $10 no thank.

FiveO

The answer is in your opening post.You wrote that yesterday, Dec 29, 2-1/2 months after her last oil change on Oct 17th. You say she has gone maybe 6500 km in that time, and that works out to 2600 km a month on average.

The service adviser told her to come back in 2 more months, which at her current rate of driving would be 10,400 km, well within a 12,000 km service interval and with a bit of room to spare should do some additional driving over the holiday visiting season.

The service adviser could have said come back at exactly 12,000 km, but who really does that? Instead he extrapolated a reasonable date that would still keep her within a reasonable service interval.


Now you're reaching. And so what if he was trying to get out of a free oil change? Why should he provide a free oil change if the car is not yet due for one?


A shop can suggest all sorts of things, and there is nothing wrong with trying to upsell a customer on things they don't really need. The gas bar down the road tries to upsell me on the benefits of frequent car washes all the time.

Is it unethical for a shop to suggest coming back more frequently than is really required, or to suggest other services as well? No. A car owner doesn't have to agree to any shop's suggestions.

A car owner should ask questions about such suggestions, even go out and educate themselves independently. It's not like that's hard to do these days. Then make an informed decision.


You're confusing upselling with dishonesty. Besides, that's irrelevant to this topic. Should it happen later to your friend, come back here and whine again under a new topic.


Congratulations, but so what? My oil consumption has remained constant since the truck was new. The truck is a working truck and the engine gets hard usage pulling heavy loads often at wide open throttle for extended periods of time.

Average for these engines is about 1 liter of oil consumed per 5,000 to 8,000 km. Ford won't even think about authorizing warranty work unless consumption exceeds 1 quart per 1000 miles (about 1 litre per 1600 km). My truck is way on the good side of either of those two particular scales, and that's using the factory specified 5W20 weight of oil.