Street Racers Beware
30-May-2006, 09:30 AM
#81
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bro i totally understand what your saying and where your comming from cuz your angry because of how the media portrayed this situation.
key words:
COUPLE
17 YEAR MARRIAGE
ANNIVERSARY
7 YEAR OLD KID
ORPHAN
now if this was
key words:
SINGLE MALE
EX-CON
MURDER AND RAPE CHARGE
POSSESION OF DRUGS
GANG LEADER
you would be like ITS A GOOD thing he died.
what I have learned is that you need to break down a story to its bare bone and learn the facts. The key thing to do is remove all the SENTIMENTAL CRAP thats the ONLY major thing that makes mankind start a war or not. Most of the comments I say on this board come out to make me look like a bad guy because I say it for what it is and not for what it wants to be.
key words:
COUPLE
17 YEAR MARRIAGE
ANNIVERSARY
7 YEAR OLD KID
ORPHAN
now if this was
key words:
SINGLE MALE
EX-CON
MURDER AND RAPE CHARGE
POSSESION OF DRUGS
GANG LEADER
you would be like ITS A GOOD thing he died.
what I have learned is that you need to break down a story to its bare bone and learn the facts. The key thing to do is remove all the SENTIMENTAL CRAP thats the ONLY major thing that makes mankind start a war or not. Most of the comments I say on this board come out to make me look like a bad guy because I say it for what it is and not for what it wants to be.
30-May-2006, 10:03 AM
#82
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Location: North East
Posts: 2,578
Good posts Jay I agree with a lot of what your saying. The media is placing all the blame on the street racers when it appears it could be partly the other drivers fault as well. Its just so easy for the media to jump all over the street racers since its such a hot topic. You know theres no way the news is going to report "Love struck Married couple didn't look turning left hitting on coming street racer"
By the way Mike not everyone in Stouffville is a HICK! lol Easy bro or I might have to pop yours tires with my pitch fork
By the way Mike not everyone in Stouffville is a HICK! lol Easy bro or I might have to pop yours tires with my pitch fork
30-May-2006, 10:06 AM
#83
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While listening to 680 this morning they were mentioning that eye witnesses saw the kid's friends in thier "modified cars" taunting the emergency workers and tried to go behind the scene of the crime?
I don't know how much of this is true but still doesn't paint a pretty picture for the tuner scene.
I don't know how much of this is true but still doesn't paint a pretty picture for the tuner scene.
30-May-2006, 10:13 AM
#84
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Good posts Jay I agree with a lot of what your saying. The media is placing all the blame on the street racers when it appears it could be partly the other drivers fault as well. Its just so easy for the media to jump all over the street racers since its such a hot topic. You know theres no way the news is going to report "Love struck Married couple didn't look turning left hitting on coming street racer"
By the way Mike not everyone in Stouffville is a HICK! lol Easy bro or I might have to pop yours tires with my pitch fork
By the way Mike not everyone in Stouffville is a HICK! lol Easy bro or I might have to pop yours tires with my pitch fork
30-May-2006, 10:18 AM
#85
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Originally posted by Team Rukus
If anyone here knows about insurance law its automatically their fault because they made the left turn even if the light was green for them.
If anyone here knows about insurance law its automatically their fault because they made the left turn even if the light was green for them.
I do happen to know more than a little about Ontario insurance law and the rules for fault determination.
You do realize that those general rules get tossed out the instant someone is charged criminally in a crash? You do realize that even being charged with speeding 16 kmph or more over the limit tosses the general rules out?
That means that the person making the left is no longer automatically at fault of another driver is so charged.
You can go look up the legislation. It's in Ontario law, Fault Determination Rules.
The law is written that way because for any driver to make a clearly informed decision when maneuvering in traffic, that driver HAS to be able to rely on other drivers acting in a relatively predictable manner and driving in a manner reasonably expected for the locale.
Two idiots travelling at double the speed limit is unreasonable and not predictable. They created the circumstance leading to the collision, and not the person whose turn could easily have been completed in safety but for the completely unreasonable and excessive speed of the the racers.
30-May-2006, 10:24 AM
#86
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Originally posted by Team Rukus
And look at the car it had an exhaust aswell and if those cars are comming double the speed these cars would be ROARING down and if the noise itself wasnt enough to slow then down and make them wait then what should.
And look at the car it had an exhaust aswell and if those cars are comming double the speed these cars would be ROARING down and if the noise itself wasnt enough to slow then down and make them wait then what should.
Now you're really reaching at straws to excuse the conduct of the two racers.
The exhaust you speak of would have been directed out the back of the car. Had they been in downtown Toronto, the perhaps some might have been reflected back forward off buildings in the area, but this was out in the country. Nothing for sound to resonate off, nothing to "reach" forward and warn anyone that two lunatics were on the way.
It still comes down to speed. Excess and unexpected speed makes it difficult for other traffic to properly guage your progress, excess speed makes it more difficult for the speeding car to slow down and stop if need be, and excess speed aggravates the destructive forces that arise from any resulting collision.
It's ALL on the heads of the two racers. They set the sequence of events in motion - but for their completely unacceptable conduct, everyone would still be alive today.
30-May-2006, 10:27 AM
#87
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Originally posted by marker
I do happen to know more than a little about Ontario insurance law and the rules for fault determination.
You do realize that those general rules get tossed out the instant someone is charged criminally in a crash? You do realize that even being charged with speeding 16 kmph or more over the limit tosses the general rules out?
That means that the person making the left is no longer automatically at fault of another driver is so charged.
You can go look up the legislation. It's in Ontario law, Fault Determination Rules.
The law is written that way because for any driver to make a clearly informed decision when maneuvering in traffic, that driver HAS to be able to rely on other drivers acting in a relatively predictable manner and driving in a manner reasonably expected for the locale.
Two idiots travelling at double the speed limit is unreasonable and not predictable. They created the circumstance leading to the collision, and not the person whose turn could easily have been completed in safety but for the completely unreasonable and excessive speed of the the racers.
I do happen to know more than a little about Ontario insurance law and the rules for fault determination.
You do realize that those general rules get tossed out the instant someone is charged criminally in a crash? You do realize that even being charged with speeding 16 kmph or more over the limit tosses the general rules out?
That means that the person making the left is no longer automatically at fault of another driver is so charged.
You can go look up the legislation. It's in Ontario law, Fault Determination Rules.
The law is written that way because for any driver to make a clearly informed decision when maneuvering in traffic, that driver HAS to be able to rely on other drivers acting in a relatively predictable manner and driving in a manner reasonably expected for the locale.
Two idiots travelling at double the speed limit is unreasonable and not predictable. They created the circumstance leading to the collision, and not the person whose turn could easily have been completed in safety but for the completely unreasonable and excessive speed of the the racers.
30-May-2006, 10:29 AM
#88
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Originally posted by marker
I do happen to know more than a little about Ontario insurance law and the rules for fault determination.
You do realize that those general rules get tossed out the instant someone is charged criminally in a crash? You do realize that even being charged with speeding 16 kmph or more over the limit tosses the general rules out?
That means that the person making the left is no longer automatically at fault of another driver is so charged.
You can go look up the legislation. It's in Ontario law, Fault Determination Rules.
The law is written that way because for any driver to make a clearly informed decision when maneuvering in traffic, that driver HAS to be able to rely on other drivers acting in a relatively predictable manner and driving in a manner reasonably expected for the locale.
Two idiots travelling at double the speed limit is unreasonable and not predictable. They created the circumstance leading to the collision, and not the person whose turn could easily have been completed in safety but for the completely unreasonable and excessive speed of the the racers.
I do happen to know more than a little about Ontario insurance law and the rules for fault determination.
You do realize that those general rules get tossed out the instant someone is charged criminally in a crash? You do realize that even being charged with speeding 16 kmph or more over the limit tosses the general rules out?
That means that the person making the left is no longer automatically at fault of another driver is so charged.
You can go look up the legislation. It's in Ontario law, Fault Determination Rules.
The law is written that way because for any driver to make a clearly informed decision when maneuvering in traffic, that driver HAS to be able to rely on other drivers acting in a relatively predictable manner and driving in a manner reasonably expected for the locale.
Two idiots travelling at double the speed limit is unreasonable and not predictable. They created the circumstance leading to the collision, and not the person whose turn could easily have been completed in safety but for the completely unreasonable and excessive speed of the the racers.
Btw ontario laws are still different from insurance. You can be held not at fault in court if you recieved a ticket and can walk away with no points and no record but its up to the insurance company to have the final say. Sure you can take that matter to court but the amount of money and time it will take you might aswell consider yourself ****ed.
btw i was stating the insurance rules and regulations as a generalized statement not as a hard fact to base my arguments on.
thanks.
30-May-2006, 10:37 AM
#89
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Originally posted by marker
Two idiots travelling at double the speed limit is unreasonable and not predictable. They created the circumstance leading to the collision, and not the person whose turn could easily have been completed in safety but for the completely unreasonable and excessive speed of the the racers.
Two idiots travelling at double the speed limit is unreasonable and not predictable. They created the circumstance leading to the collision, and not the person whose turn could easily have been completed in safety but for the completely unreasonable and excessive speed of the the racers.
Originally posted by marker
Now you're really reaching at straws to excuse the conduct of the two racers.
The exhaust you speak of would have been directed out the back of the car. Had they been in downtown Toronto, the perhaps some might have been reflected back forward off buildings in the area, but this was out in the country. Nothing for sound to resonate off, nothing to "reach" forward and warn anyone that two lunatics were on the way.
It still comes down to speed. Excess and unexpected speed makes it difficult for other traffic to properly guage your progress, excess speed makes it more difficult for the speeding car to slow down and stop if need be, and excess speed aggravates the destructive forces that arise from any resulting collision.
It's ALL on the heads of the two racers. They set the sequence of events in motion - but for their completely unacceptable conduct, everyone would still be alive today.
Now you're really reaching at straws to excuse the conduct of the two racers.
The exhaust you speak of would have been directed out the back of the car. Had they been in downtown Toronto, the perhaps some might have been reflected back forward off buildings in the area, but this was out in the country. Nothing for sound to resonate off, nothing to "reach" forward and warn anyone that two lunatics were on the way.
It still comes down to speed. Excess and unexpected speed makes it difficult for other traffic to properly guage your progress, excess speed makes it more difficult for the speeding car to slow down and stop if need be, and excess speed aggravates the destructive forces that arise from any resulting collision.
It's ALL on the heads of the two racers. They set the sequence of events in motion - but for their completely unacceptable conduct, everyone would still be alive today.
So objects moving closer to you at a faster speed is not predictable? Your saying if you cars were comming fast at you...you wouldnt be able to tell the outcome of this? What do u think they are going to do? drive as fast as possible and then stop right infront of you? LOL.
and Exhaust is placed in the rear of a car sure and there was nothing for the soundwaves to bounce back on does that change the fact that you still cant hear it? If i took a speaker and dropped it in the middle of the desert and have it facing the other way from me and blast it you think i cant hear it? thats pretty stupid. Sure i wont be able to hear it as much as if i were on the opposite site of the speaker but i can still hear it.
Again please do not bring text book mumbo jumbo into this conversation because it just makes things looks stupid. Text books, law books etc talk about specific cases and/or ideal situations.
sure according to the law it could be considered unreasonable and unpredicatable thats simply to generalize and make any matter similar to this case easier to interpret and save more money. Common sense wise this crap wouldnt hold up.
30-May-2006, 10:43 AM
#90
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Ok guys, no matter how you look at it, it always comes down to this:
SPEED KILLS!!!
nuff said!
SPEED KILLS!!!
nuff said!
30-May-2006, 10:47 AM
#91
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Originally posted by VTEC_Thunder
Ok guys, no matter how you look at it, it always comes down to this:
SPEED KILLS!!!
nuff said!
Ok guys, no matter how you look at it, it always comes down to this:
SPEED KILLS!!!
nuff said!
BREATING KILLS
LOOKING KILLS
EATING KILLS
TALKING KILLS
SITTING KILLS
anything can kill
the proper way of putting it is SPEED COULD KILL.
30-May-2006, 11:08 AM
#92
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Originally posted by Team Rukus
WALKING KILLS
BREATING KILLS
LOOKING KILLS
EATING KILLS
TALKING KILLS
SITTING KILLS
anything can kill
the proper way of putting it is SPEED COULD KILL.
WALKING KILLS
BREATING KILLS
LOOKING KILLS
EATING KILLS
TALKING KILLS
SITTING KILLS
anything can kill
the proper way of putting it is SPEED COULD KILL.
If they hadn't been speeding, they would have been able to avoid the crash or at least cause a less violent accident. Look at the picture! The cars are completely totalled!
Don't defent imature cocky young drivers who think they have something to prove....
I used to be one and i don't want to be one ever again...
Had too many close calls...I could have been "one of those"
It's a fact: street racing kills. Whats invovled in street racing that makes it so dangerous?SPEED
30-May-2006, 11:10 AM
#93
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Posts: 354
Originally posted by Team Rukus
just to keep you updated on this i said it early and i will say it again i am not saying its entirely the couples fault its the racers aswell but it still doesnt change the fact that the driver who was making the left didnt check before proceeding to turn. if he did he could have stopped before entering the intersection and unlike other intersection he doesnt have buildings and objects blocking his view from seeing the two cars race from a mile away.
Btw ontario laws are still different from insurance. You can be held not at fault in court if you recieved a ticket and can walk away with no points and no record but its up to the insurance company to have the final say. Sure you can take that matter to court but the amount of money and time it will take you might aswell consider yourself ****ed.
btw i was stating the insurance rules and regulations as a generalized statement not as a hard fact to base my arguments on.
thanks.
just to keep you updated on this i said it early and i will say it again i am not saying its entirely the couples fault its the racers aswell but it still doesnt change the fact that the driver who was making the left didnt check before proceeding to turn. if he did he could have stopped before entering the intersection and unlike other intersection he doesnt have buildings and objects blocking his view from seeing the two cars race from a mile away.
Btw ontario laws are still different from insurance. You can be held not at fault in court if you recieved a ticket and can walk away with no points and no record but its up to the insurance company to have the final say. Sure you can take that matter to court but the amount of money and time it will take you might aswell consider yourself ****ed.
btw i was stating the insurance rules and regulations as a generalized statement not as a hard fact to base my arguments on.
thanks.
There is very specific legislation that covers this - R.R.O. 1990, REGULATION 668 FAULT DETERMINATION RULES under the Insurance Act of Ontario. The insurance company does not have the final say - government legislation does.
Regarding your continued assertion that the car turning left is at least partially at fault... Most drivers in Ontario do not have the training or experience to evaluate the speed of cars travelling outside "normal" travelling speeds. That is, they understand and recognize a car travelling at "town" speed and they know the same for a car travelling at "highway" speed. That is their sphere of experience by which they formulate their go-no-go decisions.
Very few drivers have the ability to properly evaluate speeds in ranges outside of their normal sphere of experience, and approaching vehicles doing 150 kmph, especially at night when there is nothing but headlight glare to go by, do not look markedly different from someone doing 80 or 100.
I speak to this as someone who has spent time on the sides of and even ON the racing surfaces of many race tracks in close proximity to racing traffic, including night racing at Daytona and Sebring. It's not as cut and dried as you suggesting "he should have noticed the speed of the approaching cars".
That couple has absolutely no blame to carry over this tragic outcome of an act of senseless stupidity.
30-May-2006, 11:14 AM
#94
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Posts: 354
Originally posted by Team Rukus
So objects moving closer to you at a faster speed is not predictable? Your saying if you cars were comming fast at you...you wouldnt be able to tell the outcome of this? What do u think they are going to do? drive as fast as possible and then stop right infront of you? LOL.
and Exhaust is placed in the rear of a car sure and there was nothing for the soundwaves to bounce back on does that change the fact that you still cant hear it? If i took a speaker and dropped it in the middle of the desert and have it facing the other way from me and blast it you think i cant hear it? thats pretty stupid. Sure i wont be able to hear it as much as if i were on the opposite site of the speaker but i can still hear it.
Again please do not bring text book mumbo jumbo into this conversation because it just makes things looks stupid. Text books, law books etc talk about specific cases and/or ideal situations.
sure according to the law it could be considered unreasonable and unpredicatable thats simply to generalize and make any matter similar to this case easier to interpret and save more money. Common sense wise this crap wouldnt hold up.
So objects moving closer to you at a faster speed is not predictable? Your saying if you cars were comming fast at you...you wouldnt be able to tell the outcome of this? What do u think they are going to do? drive as fast as possible and then stop right infront of you? LOL.
and Exhaust is placed in the rear of a car sure and there was nothing for the soundwaves to bounce back on does that change the fact that you still cant hear it? If i took a speaker and dropped it in the middle of the desert and have it facing the other way from me and blast it you think i cant hear it? thats pretty stupid. Sure i wont be able to hear it as much as if i were on the opposite site of the speaker but i can still hear it.
Again please do not bring text book mumbo jumbo into this conversation because it just makes things looks stupid. Text books, law books etc talk about specific cases and/or ideal situations.
sure according to the law it could be considered unreasonable and unpredicatable thats simply to generalize and make any matter similar to this case easier to interpret and save more money. Common sense wise this crap wouldnt hold up.
I've just addressed a lot of this in a another post.
You're grasping at straws to excuse the actions of the two racers and to try and shift blame to the victims.
Would you blame a rape victim in the same way?
In any case, you're speaking mostly nonsense now trying to back up an untenable position. You disregard the laws of physics, you disregard human perception and visual acuity, and you disregard the range of experience a typical person is able to call on when making driving judgements.
But carry on - keep trying to blame the victim.
30-May-2006, 11:20 AM
#95
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Originally posted by Moe_Mentum
Good posts Jay I agree with a lot of what your saying. The media is placing all the blame on the street racers when it appears it could be partly the other drivers fault as well. Its just so easy for the media to jump all over the street racers since its such a hot topic. You know theres no way the news is going to report "Love struck Married couple didn't look turning left hitting on coming street racer"
By the way Mike not everyone in Stouffville is a HICK! lol Easy bro or I might have to pop yours tires with my pitch fork
Good posts Jay I agree with a lot of what your saying. The media is placing all the blame on the street racers when it appears it could be partly the other drivers fault as well. Its just so easy for the media to jump all over the street racers since its such a hot topic. You know theres no way the news is going to report "Love struck Married couple didn't look turning left hitting on coming street racer"
By the way Mike not everyone in Stouffville is a HICK! lol Easy bro or I might have to pop yours tires with my pitch fork
hahaha, I'll drive her down there and you can pop my tired with your pitch fork... hahaha, it would be jokes to see...
well, i didn't mean everyone and to be honest, I don't even know where Stouffville is. I just assumed it was enough of a distance away that my point would be made... hahaha, didn't mean to traget anyone... my apologies on that one to Moe_Mentum
AND, from when i went to bed last night and woke up this morning, I guess my comments stirred up a lot.. .you guys just owned this thread... I have nothing more to argue... Hahaha.
30-May-2006, 11:45 AM
#96
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Originally posted by mikepasini
hahaha, I'll drive her down there and you can pop my tired with your pitch fork... hahaha, it would be jokes to see...
well, i didn't mean everyone and to be honest, I don't even know where Stouffville is. I just assumed it was enough of a distance away that my point would be made... hahaha, didn't mean to traget anyone... my apologies on that one to Moe_Mentum
AND, from when i went to bed last night and woke up this morning, I guess my comments stirred up a lot.. .you guys just owned this thread... I have nothing more to argue... Hahaha.
hahaha, I'll drive her down there and you can pop my tired with your pitch fork... hahaha, it would be jokes to see...
well, i didn't mean everyone and to be honest, I don't even know where Stouffville is. I just assumed it was enough of a distance away that my point would be made... hahaha, didn't mean to traget anyone... my apologies on that one to Moe_Mentum
AND, from when i went to bed last night and woke up this morning, I guess my comments stirred up a lot.. .you guys just owned this thread... I have nothing more to argue... Hahaha.
It's ok, stouffville is a hick town
been living here for 23 years...
30-May-2006, 11:52 AM
#97
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North East
Posts: 2,578
haha don't worry Mike I take no offence to that because Stouffville is in the boondocks and there are a lot of hilibillies out here! In defence of Jay and the "Speed Kills" thing. I agree "Speed could Kill" .... But speed sometimes saves lives. I.E Speeding Firetruck, Police Car, Abulance. Of course these are totally different circumstances, but speed is still involved.
30-May-2006, 12:49 PM
#98
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Originally posted by Moe_Mentum
haha don't worry Mike I take no offence to that because Stouffville is in the boondocks and there are a lot of hilibillies out here! In defence of Jay and the "Speed Kills" thing. I agree "Speed could Kill" .... But speed sometimes saves lives. I.E Speeding Firetruck, Police Car, Abulance. Of course these are totally different circumstances, but speed is still involved.
haha don't worry Mike I take no offence to that because Stouffville is in the boondocks and there are a lot of hilibillies out here! In defence of Jay and the "Speed Kills" thing. I agree "Speed could Kill" .... But speed sometimes saves lives. I.E Speeding Firetruck, Police Car, Abulance. Of course these are totally different circumstances, but speed is still involved.
What i'm getting at is if you take a stupid person, by them selves they are usually no harm to anyone, add speed, and something bad is gonna happen....thats my phylosophy...
30-May-2006, 09:21 PM
#99
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Originally posted by marker
Ahem, insurance companies cannot assign fault EXCEPT as defined by Ontario law. That means insurance "law" and Ontario law are one and the same for any insurance company operating in Ontario.
There is very specific legislation that covers this - R.R.O. 1990, REGULATION 668 FAULT DETERMINATION RULES under the Insurance Act of Ontario. The insurance company does not have the final say - government legislation does.
Regarding your continued assertion that the car turning left is at least partially at fault... Most drivers in Ontario do not have the training or experience to evaluate the speed of cars travelling outside "normal" travelling speeds. That is, they understand and recognize a car travelling at "town" speed and they know the same for a car travelling at "highway" speed. That is their sphere of experience by which they formulate their go-no-go decisions.
Very few drivers have the ability to properly evaluate speeds in ranges outside of their normal sphere of experience, and approaching vehicles doing 150 kmph, especially at night when there is nothing but headlight glare to go by, do not look markedly different from someone doing 80 or 100.
I speak to this as someone who has spent time on the sides of and even ON the racing surfaces of many race tracks in close proximity to racing traffic, including night racing at Daytona and Sebring. It's not as cut and dried as you suggesting "he should have noticed the speed of the approaching cars".
That couple has absolutely no blame to carry over this tragic outcome of an act of senseless stupidity.
Ahem, insurance companies cannot assign fault EXCEPT as defined by Ontario law. That means insurance "law" and Ontario law are one and the same for any insurance company operating in Ontario.
There is very specific legislation that covers this - R.R.O. 1990, REGULATION 668 FAULT DETERMINATION RULES under the Insurance Act of Ontario. The insurance company does not have the final say - government legislation does.
Regarding your continued assertion that the car turning left is at least partially at fault... Most drivers in Ontario do not have the training or experience to evaluate the speed of cars travelling outside "normal" travelling speeds. That is, they understand and recognize a car travelling at "town" speed and they know the same for a car travelling at "highway" speed. That is their sphere of experience by which they formulate their go-no-go decisions.
Very few drivers have the ability to properly evaluate speeds in ranges outside of their normal sphere of experience, and approaching vehicles doing 150 kmph, especially at night when there is nothing but headlight glare to go by, do not look markedly different from someone doing 80 or 100.
I speak to this as someone who has spent time on the sides of and even ON the racing surfaces of many race tracks in close proximity to racing traffic, including night racing at Daytona and Sebring. It's not as cut and dried as you suggesting "he should have noticed the speed of the approaching cars".
That couple has absolutely no blame to carry over this tragic outcome of an act of senseless stupidity.
its not my fault that very few drivers have the ability to properly evaluate speeds outside their "spheres" if they dont know how to operate a machine properly then they shouldnt be starting it in the first place.
And the part about the couple having absolutely no blame is you just being an ignorant person. simple as that. it doesnt matter what speed your comming it doesnt matter if the cars that were racing came to a full stop. EITHER WAY when crossing OR turning on an intersection you are to look both ways.
30-May-2006, 09:26 PM
#100
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Originally posted by marker
I've just addressed a lot of this in a another post.
You're grasping at straws to excuse the actions of the two racers and to try and shift blame to the victims.
Would you blame a rape victim in the same way?
In any case, you're speaking mostly nonsense now trying to back up an untenable position. You disregard the laws of physics, you disregard human perception and visual acuity, and you disregard the range of experience a typical person is able to call on when making driving judgements.
But carry on - keep trying to blame the victim.
I've just addressed a lot of this in a another post.
You're grasping at straws to excuse the actions of the two racers and to try and shift blame to the victims.
Would you blame a rape victim in the same way?
In any case, you're speaking mostly nonsense now trying to back up an untenable position. You disregard the laws of physics, you disregard human perception and visual acuity, and you disregard the range of experience a typical person is able to call on when making driving judgements.
But carry on - keep trying to blame the victim.
how am i disregarding all the factors involved? i fully stated all the factors.
Your just like every other looser that watches the media and gets brain washed to think what the media wants you to think.
Next time open your ears and eyes more and read between the lines.
Btw i hope i never meet you on the road because i wouldnt want you to crash into me and say "oh you werent in my sphere so i didnt see you"
genius.
