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Old 22-Apr-2009, 08:42 PM
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Oh and no one mentioned the the passong of the NO HAND HELD devices while driving, that got passed today.

Woo!
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Old 22-Apr-2009, 09:03 PM
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ya but that common sense ... however you can use a handle held device if you have it attached to bluetooth and if its mounted (gps)
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Old 22-Apr-2009, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bengali548
Because driving 10 over is the grace speed that cops will give you

Above 10 or below 10 it's impossible to drive at a perfect speed

Than again driving 10 over is the norm so cops can't pull over everyone

Hell if we all drove 180 the cops couldn't do anything they can't susdpend everyones license
I've witnessed a cop pulling somebody over for 10 above before. I've heard of, and know ppl who have gotten a ticket for 10 over (70 in a 60 zone, 50 in a 40 zone is different). Technically speaking, there is no "grace speed". It's more a matter of whether or not it's worth issuing a ticket for. If a cop gives a ticket for 5 above the speed limit, they'll just be tying up the courts more. If a driver takes that ticket to court, the judge may even be upset at the officer for wasting the crown's time, and just dismiss the ticket. and .... if im wrong, FiveO will correct me LOL!!!
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Old 22-Apr-2009, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cr8tive_leo
Oh and no one mentioned the the passong of the NO HAND HELD devices while driving, that got passed today.

Woo!
I almost got sideswiped by some stupid chick yappin on her cellphone. When i switched lanes to pass the stupid girl, she looked at me and laughed. one of those "hahaha oop!!" moments for her i suppose.
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Old 22-Apr-2009, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by subsonic-civic
If a driver takes that ticket to court, the judge may even be upset at the officer for wasting the crown's time, and just dismiss the ticket. and .... if im wrong, FiveO will correct me LOL!!!
Lots of JPs will happily convict for a 5-over ticket.

Let's not forget that a lot of those seemingly piddly tickets are either tickets issued in school zones where zero tolerance is the norm, or in other areas tickets reduced from higher speeds.

Look up the difference in fatality and injury rates for adult pedestrians struck at 40 km vs the same struck at 50 km. Now look it up for children struck at the same speeds. You'd be amazed at the differences, both between the two speeds and between adult vs child pedestrians.
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Old 22-Apr-2009, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jdesouz
lol you guys are pulling statistics out of your asses. I'm study actuarial science statistics are my life. So if your trying to prove a point, support it with valid STATISTICS that prove young drivers are more irresponsible. Right now you just using a stereo-type but ill give you an E for effort

You realize that the insurance industry is about the largest single industrial employer of actuarial analysts? And you do realize that the entire auto insurance industry rate structure hinges on intensive statistical analysis of claims experiences which in turn hinges on real life crash damage, injury and fatality rates?

And you do realize that auto insurance rates are based in part on the actual collision/claims/injury/fatality experience of an individual driver combined with the aggregate actual collision/claims/injury/fatality experience of the driver group that an individual driver is a part of?

So given that, Mr actuarial science statistics student, why is it that all these statistically-based rate structures from different insurance companies are in broad agreement that younger drivers represent a greater risk of collision/claims/injury/fatality and set their rates much higher than that paid by even newer mature drivers?
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Old 22-Apr-2009, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by FiveO
Lots of JPs will happily convict for a 5-over ticket.

Let's not forget that a lot of those seemingly piddly tickets are either tickets issued in school zones where zero tolerance is the norm, or in other areas tickets reduced from higher speeds.

Look up the difference in fatality and injury rates for adult pedestrians struck at 40 km vs the same struck at 50 km. Now look it up for children struck at the same speeds. You'd be amazed at the differences, both between the two speeds and between adult vs child pedestrians.
Yes, in a 40 zone. But not so much in a 60 or higher.

Edit: I did also mention that speeding in a 40 zone is different than a 60 in my first post =)

Last edited by subsonic-civic; 22-Apr-2009 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 22-Apr-2009, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by FiveO
You realize that the insurance industry is about the largest single industrial employer of actuarial analysts? And you do realize that the entire auto insurance industry rate structure hinges on intensive statistical analysis of claims experiences which in turn hinges on real life crash damage, injury and fatality rates?

And you do realize that auto insurance rates are based in part on the actual collision/claims/injury/fatality experience of an individual driver combined with the aggregate actual collision/claims/injury/fatality experience of the driver group that an individual driver is a part of?

So given that, Mr actuarial science statistics student, why is it that all these statistically-based rate structures from different insurance companies are in broad agreement that younger drivers represent a greater risk of collision/claims/injury/fatality and set their rates much higher than that paid by even newer mature drivers?
ROCKED! FiveO ftw!
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Old 22-Apr-2009, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by subsonic-civic
Yes, in a 40 zone. But not so much in a 60 or higher.

Edit: I did also mention that speeding in a 40 zone is different than a 60 in my first post =)

Ordinarily you wouldn't get a 5 over ticket for doing 65 in a 60, but how about in a construction zone signed for 60 km? There are all sorts of reasons that a JP will happily convict for even a small amount over the limit, including tickets that have already been reduced by the cop at roadside. It all depends on circumstances.
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Old 22-Apr-2009, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by FiveO
You realize that the insurance industry is about the largest single industrial employer of actuarial analysts? And you do realize that the entire auto insurance industry rate structure hinges on intensive statistical analysis of claims experiences which in turn hinges on real life crash damage, injury and fatality rates?

And you do realize that auto insurance rates are based in part on the actual collision/claims/injury/fatality experience of an individual driver combined with the aggregate actual collision/claims/injury/fatality experience of the driver group that an individual driver is a part of?

So given that, Mr actuarial science statistics student, why is it that all these statistically-based rate structures from different insurance companies are in broad agreement that younger drivers represent a greater risk of collision/claims/injury/fatality and set their rates much higher than that paid by even newer mature drivers?
greater risk does not mean irresponsible, just means **** happens. like you said when young drivers get their license they are not all professional drivers it takes time and even the most advanced driver can still have accidents.
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Old 22-Apr-2009, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Pyro
maybe some people get drunk and pass out after one beer?
lmfao i know one chick, she gets drunk soooo quick. 2 beers and she cant walk straight anymore...[shes not putting on an act] so when people say 2 beers is ok, its not. it all depends on the person.
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Old 22-Apr-2009, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jdesouz
greater risk does not mean irresponsible, just means **** happens. like you said when young drivers get their license they are not all professional drivers it takes time and even the most advanced driver can still have accidents.

It's not just lack of experience that feeds young driver crash rates. It's also lack of maturity and other traits common among adolescents and young adults, which in manifest itself through irresponsible behaviour and inconsistent use of good judgement.

Not ALL younger drivers are totally irresponsible drivers, just as not ALL older more mature drivers are completely responsible, but there is plenty of literature out there to back the assertion that young drivers are more likely to drive irresponsibly than more mature drivers.

IIHS Licensing Systems for Young Drivers Introduction
Young novice drivers are at significant risk on the road because they lack both the judgment that comes with maturity and the skill that comes with experience.
Preventing Teen Motor Crashes: Contributions from the Behavioral and Social Sciences: Workshop Report
Although adolescence is the healthiest period of the life span physically, a time when young people are close to their peak in strength, reaction time, immune function, and other health assets, their overall morbidity and mortality rates increase 200 percent from childhood to late adolescence. Many of the primary causes of death and disability in these years—which include crashes, suicide, substance abuse, and other risky behaviors—are related to problems with control of behavior and emotion.
...
This period is characterized by increased emotional intensity and changes in romantic motivation. It is associated with increases in risk-taking, novelty-seeking, and sensation-seeking, as well as an increased focus on social status. These attributes can have significanteffects on driving behavior. Moreover, cognitive development occurs on an unrelated trajectory that is not complete until the early 20s—long after puberty is over. Thus, the capacity for planning, logical reasoning, and understanding the long-term consequences of behavior are far from fully developed during the period when most young people in America are beginning to drive.

A motor vehicle safety scale for young drivers. - Free Online Library
A leading cause of motor vehicle injuries appears to be human error (Bever, 1996). A variety of reasons are given for young adults' overrepresentation in motor vehicle crashes (Begg & Langley Langley, 2001). Research indicates contributing factors include inexperience, inattention, poor risk perception, impulsivity, and a propensity for thrill-seeking, and sensation-seeking (Jonah, 1986). Other contributors involve risky driving behaviors such as driving at excessive speed, dangerous overtaking, close following, driving after drinking, or driving after using drugs (Williams, 1998).
And back to alcohol restrictions on young drivers Preventing Teen Motor Crashes: Contributions from the Behavioral and Social Sciences: Workshop Report
Teens are especially vulnerable to the risks of drinking and driving. Younger, newly licensed drivers, as a group, have comparatively few alcohol-related crashes, while older, more experienced teen and young adult drivers have more such crashes than do adults. Nevertheless, alcohol significantly impairs driving capacity among all teenagers—and at lower blood levels than typically affect adults. As Figure 2-2 shows, the risk of crashing rises dramatically with blood alcohol content (BAC) at any age, and the effects are more marked for drivers ages 16 to 20 than for those ages 35 to 49. While peaks in substance use typically occur slightly later in the teen years (around ages 18 to 20) than driving usually begins, younger teens certainly use alcohol. Moreover, some evidence suggests that adolescents’ physiological responses to alcohol may be different from those of adults, and specifically that teens may be less sensitive to signals that they are impaired (National Research Council and Institute of Medicine, 2004, 2006).
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Old 22-Apr-2009, 11:43 PM
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FiveO read have the stuff above and gave up so don't bash if I missed something.
a lot of young drivers are irresponsible and do not have the experience, yet drive like idiots. We all know that, but when older drivers think they know how to drive, and they have had their licence for long period of time, and think that they can handle a vehicle properly are often wrong. As you get older your reaction time is not as good any more. I'm not talking about 60+ year olds, but middle aged people who think that they have all the experience that's possible, tend to drive like bigger idiots that young kids.
Lol dunno if you can understand what I'm trying to say, lil drunk.
And for people who may wonder, I'm at home and not driving lol.
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Old 22-Apr-2009, 11:57 PM
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^^ it's true! i get enough vans, suvs and family sedans riding my *** when i drive. I also notice a lot of chicks tailgate me and then speed by too! and it's not like i'm going slow, i'm usually doing about 5-10 over

edit: now that i come to think about it, younger drivers, teens and 20 something drivers are only stoopid, immature and perhaps at times reckless when they drive in "packs" with friends. alone daily driving, they seem to be fine and rarely give me any trouble tailgating and such
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Old 23-Apr-2009, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Pyro
younger drivers, teens and 20 something drivers are only stoopid, immature and perhaps at times reckless when they drive in "packs" with friends. alone daily driving, they seem to be fine and rarely give me any trouble tailgating and such
You are right, young drivers who like speeding won't spend a second more than they have to behind you and will pass you on the right. It's usually older drivers who tailgate hoping that you would get out of the way.

I have noticed that too. If I am in the fast lane and I see a done-up Civic fast approaching, I usually don't even have time to move over to the right because the guy is already in the right lane and passing me.
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Old 23-Apr-2009, 07:58 AM
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A lot of the opinions discussed about amount of alcohol, and its effects with DUI... A lot seem to be miss informed about "2 drinks". Please, before voicing an opinion, understand a little about smart serve, what alcohol is, and what happens if you're allergic to alcohol. Also, understand what the difference between driving under the influence, and impaired driving. They're different charges. I'm sure my law background isn't as indoud(sp?) as FiveO, but I'm surprised the comments some people make, and how uneducated they are.
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Old 23-Apr-2009, 08:06 AM
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Old 23-Apr-2009, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cr8tive_leo
Oh and no one mentioned the the passong of the NO HAND HELD devices while driving, that got passed today.

Woo!
Yes, it was passed. But they said in won't come into effect until the fall sometime so yay for now.
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Old 23-Apr-2009, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jdesouz
define drinking and driving. Everyones perception of drinking and driving differs. For me, drinking and driving means either drinking in a vehicle while operating it or drinking too much and then operating a vehicle. Some people think even one beer and then driving 3 hours later is still considered drinking and driving. However, i think thats a bit harsh.
I've never had one drink and drove my vehicle, ever. Sorry if I'm not cool. lol.
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Old 23-Apr-2009, 11:36 AM
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^^ your not
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