Import Specialist EK Track Car build thread...
09-Jul-2009, 12:06 PM
#41
I was going to comment on switching to a clutch LSD... Didn't make sense to me. I myself was doing slip research, and found for FWD clutch is a bad idea, not to mention wear. I bought a Quaife myself for my project, installed, not drivable yet 
Can't you test new rings? I know it would be to be broken in and such, and could have damage in the cylinders... also, I thought a compression test only test the compression rings, not the oil rings like you're burning. Leak down test might be able to show more, no(valve seals)?
Well I guess it doesn't really matter, what's done is done... and I'm sure it was all thought of, just not wrote about for a better read.
is Paul's number 416 848 0653 ? I was given that number, and recommended to that Paul for tuning :S Though I was talking to an Andy... nice guy... booked solid.
Can't you test new rings? I know it would be to be broken in and such, and could have damage in the cylinders... also, I thought a compression test only test the compression rings, not the oil rings like you're burning. Leak down test might be able to show more, no(valve seals)?
Well I guess it doesn't really matter, what's done is done... and I'm sure it was all thought of, just not wrote about for a better read.
is Paul's number 416 848 0653 ? I was given that number, and recommended to that Paul for tuning :S Though I was talking to an Andy... nice guy... booked solid.
09-Jul-2009, 01:16 PM
#42
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 58
Pauls number is (905)*457-2977.
We did a wet and dry compression test. The dry test didn't tell us much since we don't remember what the compression was when the engine was new so we don't have a base to compare it to. But was consistant so that was promising. The wet compression test showed a higher compression than we liked but not enough to halt the build. The engine was built a little loose to compensate for the extra heat and expansion at race temperature. We had a cam seal go, but at temp withthe turbo we didn't puff any more. Might be the heat from the turbo and the expansion sealed everyhting up. Could also be we used thicker oil.
We did a wet and dry compression test. The dry test didn't tell us much since we don't remember what the compression was when the engine was new so we don't have a base to compare it to. But was consistant so that was promising. The wet compression test showed a higher compression than we liked but not enough to halt the build. The engine was built a little loose to compensate for the extra heat and expansion at race temperature. We had a cam seal go, but at temp withthe turbo we didn't puff any more. Might be the heat from the turbo and the expansion sealed everyhting up. Could also be we used thicker oil.
09-Jul-2009, 01:28 PM
#43
Some people frown about 'wet' compression tests, but worked for me too! (255psi and up 
)
10w40 oil? Most people are terrified of running turbo's with that high of a compression(B16A 10.1:1 and up) and running 10lbs is a lot of boost for stock inturnals. For solo racing did you ever think of Supercharging? I know Honda is mostly, if not all, top end power. I was reading about Skunk2 and how they changed from Turbo to Super for their racing. It would allow a much smoother powerband, and said they had a much greater success coming out of the corners.
I'd hate to see the engine explode... I've never heard of Turboing to fix oil burning lol. Awesome it's working for you guys. I assume you've checked the oil level/colour, and not just betting on the smoke not being visable from the rear?
)10w40 oil? Most people are terrified of running turbo's with that high of a compression(B16A 10.1:1 and up) and running 10lbs is a lot of boost for stock inturnals. For solo racing did you ever think of Supercharging? I know Honda is mostly, if not all, top end power. I was reading about Skunk2 and how they changed from Turbo to Super for their racing. It would allow a much smoother powerband, and said they had a much greater success coming out of the corners.
I'd hate to see the engine explode... I've never heard of Turboing to fix oil burning lol. Awesome it's working for you guys. I assume you've checked the oil level/colour, and not just betting on the smoke not being visable from the rear?
09-Jul-2009, 01:45 PM
#44
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 58
It's funny you should mention that. The backstory to this engine was it was built to run a JRSC, but the charger never worked properly so we just ran it NA. Had low compression pistons which hurt us for NA build, but makes for a strong turbo motor. It also has rods and might be sleeved or might just be a closed deck - it's been a while since the head has been off.
Wet compression you want to be the same numbers as the dry compression or within 5-10% (forget the standard). If the rings don't leak, the compression stays the same. If the rings do leak, the oil will fill the gaps and raise compression. Ours was at the higher end of safe, but still safe.
I may have exaggerated how much oil we were burning - you really have to be looking for the puffing between gears to see it. From all the track photos you can see the exhaust is pretty clean otherwise. It's not perfect, perfect, but it's not bad enough for a rebuild.
We do keep a careful eye on the oil and we do over-fill which is also known to cause puffing.
Wet compression you want to be the same numbers as the dry compression or within 5-10% (forget the standard). If the rings don't leak, the compression stays the same. If the rings do leak, the oil will fill the gaps and raise compression. Ours was at the higher end of safe, but still safe.
I may have exaggerated how much oil we were burning - you really have to be looking for the puffing between gears to see it. From all the track photos you can see the exhaust is pretty clean otherwise. It's not perfect, perfect, but it's not bad enough for a rebuild.
We do keep a careful eye on the oil and we do over-fill which is also known to cause puffing.
Last edited by RRRex; 09-Jul-2009 at 01:48 PM.
09-Jul-2009, 05:24 PM
#45
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 58
So, July 1st we pulled the truck and trailer in to Mosport Grand Prix track with the new turbo in place. It was just a testing session and we just wanted to stretch the car’s legs and get some turbo seat time. The turbo is nutty BTW. First time it spooled it shoved me back in my seat and kept me pinned until I shifted, then pinned me right back again. Amazing pull in the straights. Power is smooth as silk. Doesn't hit you like a hammer either, it stays consistent and furious from 5K on.
It was a cold day so that helped make extra power. Put down 1:38s running turn one, two, four and eight at about 75%, shifting at under 8K and no splitter in the morning session.
Heat seemed to be OK. No really difference from the NA motor. The afternoon though it was different. After 5 laps the heat climbed from 210 degrees - which is normal for us - to 240 degrees and stayed there. Mind you the stock temp gauge didn't move so we were still in the safe zone. Took the front grill off to get more air under the hood and that helped a lot but think it cost us straightaway speed.
5 things plagued us throughout the day. Understeer, aero, turbo spool, a cam seal leak and extreme tire failure. First the understeer. We knew it was coming so we dusted off our old Special Projects front splitter anchors that were still attached to the car. The splitter kept the front end planted and made the car more stable at speed but the car still understeered like a pig - but the splitter was better than no splitter.
Next issue was turbo spool. Turbo track driving is a completely new experience for us. It’s kind of like VTEC’s evil cousin who was irradiated with green plasma rays. Now when it gets angry all its clothes rip off and there’s lots of yelling and muscle flexing. That’s fine and dandy in the straights, but adding power mid throttle, mid corner to balance the car, really upsets the thing. You’d add a bit of gas, the turbo would spool, power kicks in, lift a little blowoff pops give it a bit more and a split second later off it went again. Anyway, the contact patches were changing and it was hard to keep the car on a smooth line. Add to that higher speeds to that equation and it’s quite unsettling to drive.
Then the cam seal went and started pissing oil all over the engine bay. Didn’t stop us, but lost about a litre the whole day. Oil pressure is usually in the 70 range, but now dropped to 50psi. Was guessing that's the pressure loss from feeding the turbo but when we switched to 20W50 turbo oil, pressure returned to 70psi and there was no sign of oil burning.
Lastly suffered was extreme tire failure. We’re running 23X9X15 Goodyear Eagle R430 bias ply racing slicks in the front and 23X8X15 slicks in the rear. Martin was driving out of turn 1 at speed and the outside tire pops. The car stays on the track and is limped down turn 2 and gets parked in the grass long past the exit of turn 2 and just before turn 3 – well off the racing line. There he sat till the end of the session till the tow truck pulled him back into the pits. If you’ve ever been to Mosport you know that there’s no safe place to park your car on turn 2 so no point risking your car to save a rim or a tire so the best thing to do is drive on it till you’re out of everyone’s way. On another side note, the tires were extremely predictable when flat. They made all sorts of different noises and vibrations, but went where you told them to. Anyway, as soon as the car hit the grass, the splitter exited stage left. Bye-bye splitter #1.
Our spare rear tires were put on the front and we were left to sort out the handling with less front grip. The blown tire was sent to Jeff Wenzel at TireCraft in Concord for inspection and 2 new tires were mounted on rims and ready the next day so we were ready for Saturday’s Mosport school where we both were racing. Awesome service and turn around time for race tires.
The Skunk2 rear upper camber arm bushings gave out too. As did the lower control arm on the driver's side during dyno tuning. Despite the issues we were still able to drive it on the trailer at the end of the day which is always a good day at Mosport.
It was a cold day so that helped make extra power. Put down 1:38s running turn one, two, four and eight at about 75%, shifting at under 8K and no splitter in the morning session.
Heat seemed to be OK. No really difference from the NA motor. The afternoon though it was different. After 5 laps the heat climbed from 210 degrees - which is normal for us - to 240 degrees and stayed there. Mind you the stock temp gauge didn't move so we were still in the safe zone. Took the front grill off to get more air under the hood and that helped a lot but think it cost us straightaway speed.
5 things plagued us throughout the day. Understeer, aero, turbo spool, a cam seal leak and extreme tire failure. First the understeer. We knew it was coming so we dusted off our old Special Projects front splitter anchors that were still attached to the car. The splitter kept the front end planted and made the car more stable at speed but the car still understeered like a pig - but the splitter was better than no splitter.
Next issue was turbo spool. Turbo track driving is a completely new experience for us. It’s kind of like VTEC’s evil cousin who was irradiated with green plasma rays. Now when it gets angry all its clothes rip off and there’s lots of yelling and muscle flexing. That’s fine and dandy in the straights, but adding power mid throttle, mid corner to balance the car, really upsets the thing. You’d add a bit of gas, the turbo would spool, power kicks in, lift a little blowoff pops give it a bit more and a split second later off it went again. Anyway, the contact patches were changing and it was hard to keep the car on a smooth line. Add to that higher speeds to that equation and it’s quite unsettling to drive.
Then the cam seal went and started pissing oil all over the engine bay. Didn’t stop us, but lost about a litre the whole day. Oil pressure is usually in the 70 range, but now dropped to 50psi. Was guessing that's the pressure loss from feeding the turbo but when we switched to 20W50 turbo oil, pressure returned to 70psi and there was no sign of oil burning.
Lastly suffered was extreme tire failure. We’re running 23X9X15 Goodyear Eagle R430 bias ply racing slicks in the front and 23X8X15 slicks in the rear. Martin was driving out of turn 1 at speed and the outside tire pops. The car stays on the track and is limped down turn 2 and gets parked in the grass long past the exit of turn 2 and just before turn 3 – well off the racing line. There he sat till the end of the session till the tow truck pulled him back into the pits. If you’ve ever been to Mosport you know that there’s no safe place to park your car on turn 2 so no point risking your car to save a rim or a tire so the best thing to do is drive on it till you’re out of everyone’s way. On another side note, the tires were extremely predictable when flat. They made all sorts of different noises and vibrations, but went where you told them to. Anyway, as soon as the car hit the grass, the splitter exited stage left. Bye-bye splitter #1.
Our spare rear tires were put on the front and we were left to sort out the handling with less front grip. The blown tire was sent to Jeff Wenzel at TireCraft in Concord for inspection and 2 new tires were mounted on rims and ready the next day so we were ready for Saturday’s Mosport school where we both were racing. Awesome service and turn around time for race tires.
The Skunk2 rear upper camber arm bushings gave out too. As did the lower control arm on the driver's side during dyno tuning. Despite the issues we were still able to drive it on the trailer at the end of the day which is always a good day at Mosport.
16-Jul-2009, 11:29 PM
#46
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 58
After the Wednesday lapping the car went back to Paul at Splitfire for new cam seals, rear upper camber arms and an oil change. We picked the car up Friday night and were ready to go for Saturday morning. Saturday was a race school at Mosport that both Martin and I were instructing at but we had 2 hours of track time to keep sorting out the handling. Since Wednesday lapping we consulted a few turbo racers for tips on driving a turbo car and had a few techniques we wanted to try as well.
What seemed to work best is treating the gas peddle like an on/off switch with a split second delay. Hammer the gas a split second before you need the power and bob’s your uncle.
I got my brother – a carpenter – to help me build and cut a couple spare plywood splitters the night before and we mounted the day of the school to test try to get it to work again. This one was much stronger.
During instructor lapping, I had invited my student to ride shotgun and started putting down some decent times – a consistent 1:36 to 1:38 with traffic no problem. The car was feeling good, the new techniques made the mid-corner BS we were dealing with on Wednesday go away. So we were flying through the course until tire failure number 2.
This time I was flying down turn 2 when the tire popped like a cherry. Course, turn 2 entry is far less a forgiving place to blow a tire than turn 1 exit where the last tire blew – and left you a very little chance of keeping the car off the grass. So as a good instructor with the student in the car I start yelling instructions to him on the proper way to go off track without flipping the car or hitting a barrier. It’s a long hill and a long slide on the grass so we had plenty of time for a conversation went much like this:
SFX: POP!
Student: Did the motor just blow?!
Instructor: No, that was a tire! We’re going to go off track soon! Whenever you go off track, don’t try to fight it!
VISUAL: Car goes off the track but goes off straight. Splitter number 2 catches the grass and exits stage right.
Instructor: Just drive off straight and find a place where you can safely stop! Just like this.
VISUAL: Car slows down then is driven between a gap in the barrier.
Instructor: Now look up the hill for a yellow flag and when you see a gap in traffic I want you to run out of the car and jump over the barrier.
VISUAL: Instructor and student leave car and run behind the barrier.
Instructor: Now wave to the marshals to make sure they see you and know you’re not dead.
Visual: Instructor and student waving hello to the marshals. Marshals happily wave back.
As offs go, that was pretty textbook and hopefully something my student remembers if he’s ever in the same spot. Other cars crashed that day and the next on the same corner with far less speed and 4 working tires - so I do consider myself very lucky that I walked away from that with so little drama. Though I hate that I blew a second tire, I was grateful the tires were predictable to drive flat.
Damage was assessed. The splitter was too strong so it ripped it self right off the anchoring points and bent a part of intercooler tubing. A barrage of solo scrutineers and organizers gracefully came over to the car trying to help me figure out why I blew this second tire about 200m from where the first one went. We guessed that maybe the tire rubbed on the inside of the fender on turn 1 weakening the tire but it didn’t blow till turn 2. It didn’t make sense to me because turn 5b is also a hard right-hander, with far more load, and far more steering input needed than even a complete moron would attempt on turn 1. And, we’ve been running these tires all season, why would it to rub today? But best be safe.
I used brake cleaner to clean the wheel well and covered all the suspected areas with duct tape. Then went down to a paved area used for AutoX to put far more load on the tire than on the track and far more steering input than you would ever get on the track. Pulled both front tires off the car and no rubbing anywhere. I’m thinking defective batch of tires. It looks like it blew from the inside out on the sidewall.
Another barrage of scrutineers and organizers poured over the car looking for the slightest bit of rub. Oh, and I also consulted 2 different Subaru racers about the bent pipes and they said it will restrict flow a bit, but I’m not losing any pressure. If anyone knows about bent piping it’s guys whose cars were built for rally racing. Got the green light to do a safety check on the track during instructor lapping.
So back on to the track for some testing. Took it slow on the straights but really tried pushing it in the corners. If it’s going to blow again I want it to be at full load, but at safe speeds. Came off and pulled the tires again. The Solo scrutineers and Admin poured over the car and assessed all the evidence. Duct tape was untouched everywhere it was applied. Another spacer was added just to be extra super safe it doesn’t rub. Took the car out again. Brought it up to race speed slowly then just wailed on it for the last session of the day (well, safely wailed on it within the limits of the car and driver). Put down a couple 36’s and one high 35. Hrmm. Tomorrow was the competition and the reason for all this extra work. But the car was working nicely and tomorrow was going to be fun. Yay.
Called Paul Bhawan from Splitfire Performance after we packed up the car to let him know how it went. He was at home and said he’s not going to let us back onto the track unless he sees the damage from the off first hand. Well, his shop name is on the windshield so we left the track and pulled into his shop at 7pm. Just after midnight we pulled out with brand new custom-made piping, the turbo was removed and a blown gasket was replaced, the turbo housing was tach welded onto the exhaust manifold. All the bolts were refastened – even the suspension bolts were all re-torqued.
Hoping to hit a low 1:35 or a high 1:34 the next day. But that’s another story.
Photos by Keith Hamilton and Sonia Tanney.
^^ Stoopid popped tire!
What seemed to work best is treating the gas peddle like an on/off switch with a split second delay. Hammer the gas a split second before you need the power and bob’s your uncle.
I got my brother – a carpenter – to help me build and cut a couple spare plywood splitters the night before and we mounted the day of the school to test try to get it to work again. This one was much stronger.
During instructor lapping, I had invited my student to ride shotgun and started putting down some decent times – a consistent 1:36 to 1:38 with traffic no problem. The car was feeling good, the new techniques made the mid-corner BS we were dealing with on Wednesday go away. So we were flying through the course until tire failure number 2.
This time I was flying down turn 2 when the tire popped like a cherry. Course, turn 2 entry is far less a forgiving place to blow a tire than turn 1 exit where the last tire blew – and left you a very little chance of keeping the car off the grass. So as a good instructor with the student in the car I start yelling instructions to him on the proper way to go off track without flipping the car or hitting a barrier. It’s a long hill and a long slide on the grass so we had plenty of time for a conversation went much like this:
SFX: POP!
Student: Did the motor just blow?!
Instructor: No, that was a tire! We’re going to go off track soon! Whenever you go off track, don’t try to fight it!
VISUAL: Car goes off the track but goes off straight. Splitter number 2 catches the grass and exits stage right.
Instructor: Just drive off straight and find a place where you can safely stop! Just like this.
VISUAL: Car slows down then is driven between a gap in the barrier.
Instructor: Now look up the hill for a yellow flag and when you see a gap in traffic I want you to run out of the car and jump over the barrier.
VISUAL: Instructor and student leave car and run behind the barrier.
Instructor: Now wave to the marshals to make sure they see you and know you’re not dead.
Visual: Instructor and student waving hello to the marshals. Marshals happily wave back.
As offs go, that was pretty textbook and hopefully something my student remembers if he’s ever in the same spot. Other cars crashed that day and the next on the same corner with far less speed and 4 working tires - so I do consider myself very lucky that I walked away from that with so little drama. Though I hate that I blew a second tire, I was grateful the tires were predictable to drive flat.
Damage was assessed. The splitter was too strong so it ripped it self right off the anchoring points and bent a part of intercooler tubing. A barrage of solo scrutineers and organizers gracefully came over to the car trying to help me figure out why I blew this second tire about 200m from where the first one went. We guessed that maybe the tire rubbed on the inside of the fender on turn 1 weakening the tire but it didn’t blow till turn 2. It didn’t make sense to me because turn 5b is also a hard right-hander, with far more load, and far more steering input needed than even a complete moron would attempt on turn 1. And, we’ve been running these tires all season, why would it to rub today? But best be safe.
I used brake cleaner to clean the wheel well and covered all the suspected areas with duct tape. Then went down to a paved area used for AutoX to put far more load on the tire than on the track and far more steering input than you would ever get on the track. Pulled both front tires off the car and no rubbing anywhere. I’m thinking defective batch of tires. It looks like it blew from the inside out on the sidewall.
Another barrage of scrutineers and organizers poured over the car looking for the slightest bit of rub. Oh, and I also consulted 2 different Subaru racers about the bent pipes and they said it will restrict flow a bit, but I’m not losing any pressure. If anyone knows about bent piping it’s guys whose cars were built for rally racing. Got the green light to do a safety check on the track during instructor lapping.
So back on to the track for some testing. Took it slow on the straights but really tried pushing it in the corners. If it’s going to blow again I want it to be at full load, but at safe speeds. Came off and pulled the tires again. The Solo scrutineers and Admin poured over the car and assessed all the evidence. Duct tape was untouched everywhere it was applied. Another spacer was added just to be extra super safe it doesn’t rub. Took the car out again. Brought it up to race speed slowly then just wailed on it for the last session of the day (well, safely wailed on it within the limits of the car and driver). Put down a couple 36’s and one high 35. Hrmm. Tomorrow was the competition and the reason for all this extra work. But the car was working nicely and tomorrow was going to be fun. Yay.
Called Paul Bhawan from Splitfire Performance after we packed up the car to let him know how it went. He was at home and said he’s not going to let us back onto the track unless he sees the damage from the off first hand. Well, his shop name is on the windshield so we left the track and pulled into his shop at 7pm. Just after midnight we pulled out with brand new custom-made piping, the turbo was removed and a blown gasket was replaced, the turbo housing was tach welded onto the exhaust manifold. All the bolts were refastened – even the suspension bolts were all re-torqued.
Hoping to hit a low 1:35 or a high 1:34 the next day. But that’s another story.
Photos by Keith Hamilton and Sonia Tanney.
^^ Stoopid popped tire!
19-Jul-2009, 10:10 PM
#48
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 58
Competition day. Went out first thing in the next morning without a splitter. Car felt solid, lots of power. Tires gripped no problem. Did a few high 1:36s in lapping on a cold track and traffic. Only thing I noticed was I wasn’t hitting the rev limiter in 5th on the backstraight like I once did but whatever, still ripping up the track. Lined up 5th on the grid behind a Tube Chassis Monte Carlo Nascar V8 Monster. Green flag dropped and off I went. Track felt a little slick in the morning and the car was less stable without the splitter but still caught the Monte Carlo on my second lap. Got yellow flagged and was tempted to pull into the pits and just give up last run. But I stayed out and put down a solid lap.
It was much hotter day on Sunday. The temperature was climbing fast and for a while there it was starting to feel like summer again. It was a messy morning though. Cars started to fall off the track, red flags were being thrown and the tow truck had to go out a few times. Mostly to pull cars out of turn 2. Sucky. The upside to all the delays was we had time to install splitter Number 3. We also got to hear Stephen and Chuck instilling the fear of God into all the competitors for all the red flags that were holding up the event. When these guys start yelling, something is up and you listen and obey.
Course after the meeting Stephen and Chuck saw splitter number 3 on the car. Did I mention these guys were a little upset? Hrm. Hope the duct tape passes scrutineering. Sure I broke one a day earlier, but a tire blew, can’t blame the splitter for that? Everyone knows that splitters and grass go together like Michael Jackson and straight women (Is it still too early for MJ jokes?). Since our Special projects anchors didn’t survive the last off, this splitter was anchored to the traction bar. It sat up as high as possible – with over 3”. It was 5/8ths plywood so pretty strong. The anchors were all aircraft grade steel and were mounted to chassis near the rad anchors.
To pass tech they said if I could stand on it they’d pass it. I looked at all the duct tape and started to sweat. I tried to weasel out of that test as best I could. Did I mention they were in a bad mood? Oh well, better safe than sorry. Took a deep breathe and thought about butterflies and helium air balloons and put my 220lbs of pure manhood on the splitter. Ha. To my surprise it held. It barely even moved. Phew. That’s awesome.
Martin took the car out as the guinea pig to see if the splitter even worked and see how it affected handling. We were running the rear suspension at full stiff with only 5 clicks in the front – I mentioned our understeer issues right? Now with more front down force I softened the rears by 4 clicks just to be on the safe side should the splitter create a lot more front down force I didn’t want Martin sliding off the track. Martin went for back-to-back runs. After his first session he said there was lots of grip, but put the clicks back in the rear because we were still understeering like a bitch. So back went the rear suspension to full hard. After his second run he came back and said it was on the aggressive side of neutral and suggested to pull the rears back by 2 clicks for my run. I pulled it back one click.
I went out for my last session. Track felt a little slick on cold tires but once I got heat into them they seemed ok but not as fast as Saturday or in the morning. I treated the throttle like an on/off switch with a delayed reaction. I pushed all the braking zones back as far as I felt comfortable and had a nice balanced feeling amount of slide through most of the corners. Only tapped the brakes on turn 4 on the warm up and cool down laps, otherwise it was a lift full throttle. Grip on turn 2, 4 and 8 was incredible. Found a picture of the car with a rear wheel cocked on turn 8 which was cool to see on such a high speed turn. Finally the car felt balanced. I increased entry speeds a bit more and the tires squawked a bit more but stayed planted.
Then tire failure number 3. This time was on the exit of turn 3 as I’m straightening up for turn 4. Felt the wheel suddenly vibrate like a nickel bed at the Motel 6. At the time I thought it was one of the anchoring cables on the splitter had snapped and the splitter was flapping in the breeze. The change in the contact patch was causing the steering wheel vibrations. I still have full control of the car. Tires weren’t flat and I still had grip. So I let off the throttle and limped down 4 and 5. Keep my eyes on the rearview for the viper that was gridded behind me on the grid up the backstraight, but he was nowhere in sight. Kinda knew it wasn’t the splitter when I slowed down for 5b and it was still vibrating. Pulled off the track and into the pits without much drama or holding up the event.
Looked at my lap timer and times didn’t drop from the morning session and I was seconds off the pace of what we were doing in the morning and the previous day. Man was I ever pissed. Did still get a solid good backup time on the books during the second session but my fastest time was on hot tires on the 3rd lap in the morning. Obviously the tires needed a few laps to really start to grip. As soon as I got into the pits I got Martin to take the car to the trailer while I walked back to the paddock to blow off some steam. I didn’t understand why times were down because I felt like I was driving the snot out of the car.
It could also be because it was really hot out Sunday so the turbo engine wasn’t making as much power. Had only 3 days on a turbo motor, so don’t really know how drastically ambient temps affected power. Could also be the track was slower since everyone else’s afternoon times also went down. Could also be we were leaking boost because in the pits we found the v-clamp had backed off of the wastegate and it was rattling inside the engine bay. Though on later inspection, Paul said the V-clamp wasn’t holding back any boost.
Could be the tires weren’t getting up to temp – rear tires were around 110 degrees and the most heat we recorded on the front was 145 degrees which is well below the recommended operating temperature for these tires and the best time was after 4 hot laps on the things. Or that we were running the tires too hard – 24 psi hot vs our usual 22 psi. Could also just be a bad batch of tires since we had plenty of failures so we may have been losing grip. Could also be I over-drove the car or underdrove the car for that matter. Right now I’m just guessing. Won’t know for sure why the afternoon times weren’t faster until I go through the data on the race computer for that day and compare it to Saturday’s times and Wednesday’s times. If I had to guess, I think I was making time in the corners, but lost it in the straights.
The splitter obviously was fine – no damage. Rattled at over 200kph so we’ll have to figure out a different way to anchor it.
As Martin was driving the car I saw the front wheel though and it looked like something was stuck to the inside sidewall. Pulled the tire off and there were 2 giant bulges on the inside of the sidewall on the driver’s side that’s what caused the . I’m baffled for what’s causing these tire failures at Mosport. I don’t see rubbing as an issue because we’ve run these tires all season. If we were going to have rubbing issues it would’ve presented itself much sooner at much tighter tracks. Besides, the bulges stuck out an inch on the inside sidewall and didn’t pop through the second half of the course on my last lap, so there’s more than a safe margin of clearance there.
Poured through the track photos looking to see if we were on any of the curbing and we were well clear of it from all the shots I’ve seen. The video of the car on 4 and 5 show we were well clear of the curbing there. We lost a total of 2 driver’s side tires and one passenger side tire in 3 track days. 2 of the tires were brand new on only run on the day they exploded. One was a spare rear tire that we ran on the front with only 2 competition days on it. We get very little rear tire wear so they had lots of rubber on them.
Tires weren’t overheating because we ran higher tire pressures and didn’t have any pyro readings over 145 degrees which is well-below the recommended operating temperatures for these tires. Besides, we’ve run these tires on much rougher tracks with lower pressures and higher tire temps without any issues. Mosport in general is easy on tires and brakes. Asked Jeff Wenzel if the heat from the turbo or the extra power or weight from the turbo on the front end could be responsible, but he doesn’t think so since lots of turbo cars run slicks without any issues.
Anyway, all 3 failed Goodyear bias ply tires are now with Jeff Wenzel at Tirecraft and being sent to the experts at Goodyear for evaluation. Really hoping they can give us a satisfactory explanation or at least clues as to what caused the failures. Also hoping they’re sympathetic to my plight and replace the tires for us. Had great success before this weekend with these tires.
Anyway lots of drama and frustration for a guy who still won his class class, and set the third fastest time of the day behind a 400+hp Z06 and corvette powered 240Z. We are still fielding the fastest FWD car in competition in this series by a good margin. The V8 Monte Carlo Nascar V8 monster thingy was really close on my tail for our class and Martin finished third with some really impressive and personal Mosport best times. Though I was disappointed in the 1:37.1, the 1:35.9 I did on Saturday really only would’ve moved to second fastest of the day and would have no effect on my overall class standings. Great day considering it’s only an eco-box on roids. Despite the setbacks it was a good weekend because we drove the car on the trailer at the end - that’s always a good day at Mosport.
Huge learning curve too, we had very little time to get us and the car up to speed. Huge props and a bit thank you goes to Paul and the crew at Splitfire for their support in the pits and for working on it after the first testing session, then giving up their Saturday night to make sure it was running and safe for Sunday.
Engine seems to take well to boost. Extra heat might make all the engine bits expand and seal up the rings because we weren’t losing oil or puffing between gears. Might also be the thicker turbo oil we switched to. Either way, awesomely fun car to drive.
Next up is an engine refresh, solid spherical bearings for the front lower control arms, solid spherical bearings for the rear camber arms, the tie rod ends were damaged probably from the vibration from the tire bubble so they’re both being replaced and hopefully getting someone to make us a proper, less mad-max looking front splitter.
Below is a video of the run in the afternoon. To give you an idea of speed differential, the viper was gridded behind me by 6 seconds on the warm up lap since I had caught the car in front of me on the previous session, I let the guy behind catch up about 3 seconds on the back straight during the warm up lap. But from turn 8 I was gone and didn’t see the Viper again even when I limped the car back into the pits.
Mosport event5 video by RRRex91 - Photobucket
<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i26.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid26.photobucket.com/albums/c102/RRRex91/mir1.flv">
Here’s a picture of my super cool ghetto splitter that’s in need of a re-design:
It was much hotter day on Sunday. The temperature was climbing fast and for a while there it was starting to feel like summer again. It was a messy morning though. Cars started to fall off the track, red flags were being thrown and the tow truck had to go out a few times. Mostly to pull cars out of turn 2. Sucky. The upside to all the delays was we had time to install splitter Number 3. We also got to hear Stephen and Chuck instilling the fear of God into all the competitors for all the red flags that were holding up the event. When these guys start yelling, something is up and you listen and obey.
Course after the meeting Stephen and Chuck saw splitter number 3 on the car. Did I mention these guys were a little upset? Hrm. Hope the duct tape passes scrutineering. Sure I broke one a day earlier, but a tire blew, can’t blame the splitter for that? Everyone knows that splitters and grass go together like Michael Jackson and straight women (Is it still too early for MJ jokes?). Since our Special projects anchors didn’t survive the last off, this splitter was anchored to the traction bar. It sat up as high as possible – with over 3”. It was 5/8ths plywood so pretty strong. The anchors were all aircraft grade steel and were mounted to chassis near the rad anchors.
To pass tech they said if I could stand on it they’d pass it. I looked at all the duct tape and started to sweat. I tried to weasel out of that test as best I could. Did I mention they were in a bad mood? Oh well, better safe than sorry. Took a deep breathe and thought about butterflies and helium air balloons and put my 220lbs of pure manhood on the splitter. Ha. To my surprise it held. It barely even moved. Phew. That’s awesome.
Martin took the car out as the guinea pig to see if the splitter even worked and see how it affected handling. We were running the rear suspension at full stiff with only 5 clicks in the front – I mentioned our understeer issues right? Now with more front down force I softened the rears by 4 clicks just to be on the safe side should the splitter create a lot more front down force I didn’t want Martin sliding off the track. Martin went for back-to-back runs. After his first session he said there was lots of grip, but put the clicks back in the rear because we were still understeering like a bitch. So back went the rear suspension to full hard. After his second run he came back and said it was on the aggressive side of neutral and suggested to pull the rears back by 2 clicks for my run. I pulled it back one click.
I went out for my last session. Track felt a little slick on cold tires but once I got heat into them they seemed ok but not as fast as Saturday or in the morning. I treated the throttle like an on/off switch with a delayed reaction. I pushed all the braking zones back as far as I felt comfortable and had a nice balanced feeling amount of slide through most of the corners. Only tapped the brakes on turn 4 on the warm up and cool down laps, otherwise it was a lift full throttle. Grip on turn 2, 4 and 8 was incredible. Found a picture of the car with a rear wheel cocked on turn 8 which was cool to see on such a high speed turn. Finally the car felt balanced. I increased entry speeds a bit more and the tires squawked a bit more but stayed planted.
Then tire failure number 3. This time was on the exit of turn 3 as I’m straightening up for turn 4. Felt the wheel suddenly vibrate like a nickel bed at the Motel 6. At the time I thought it was one of the anchoring cables on the splitter had snapped and the splitter was flapping in the breeze. The change in the contact patch was causing the steering wheel vibrations. I still have full control of the car. Tires weren’t flat and I still had grip. So I let off the throttle and limped down 4 and 5. Keep my eyes on the rearview for the viper that was gridded behind me on the grid up the backstraight, but he was nowhere in sight. Kinda knew it wasn’t the splitter when I slowed down for 5b and it was still vibrating. Pulled off the track and into the pits without much drama or holding up the event.
Looked at my lap timer and times didn’t drop from the morning session and I was seconds off the pace of what we were doing in the morning and the previous day. Man was I ever pissed. Did still get a solid good backup time on the books during the second session but my fastest time was on hot tires on the 3rd lap in the morning. Obviously the tires needed a few laps to really start to grip. As soon as I got into the pits I got Martin to take the car to the trailer while I walked back to the paddock to blow off some steam. I didn’t understand why times were down because I felt like I was driving the snot out of the car.
It could also be because it was really hot out Sunday so the turbo engine wasn’t making as much power. Had only 3 days on a turbo motor, so don’t really know how drastically ambient temps affected power. Could also be the track was slower since everyone else’s afternoon times also went down. Could also be we were leaking boost because in the pits we found the v-clamp had backed off of the wastegate and it was rattling inside the engine bay. Though on later inspection, Paul said the V-clamp wasn’t holding back any boost.
Could be the tires weren’t getting up to temp – rear tires were around 110 degrees and the most heat we recorded on the front was 145 degrees which is well below the recommended operating temperature for these tires and the best time was after 4 hot laps on the things. Or that we were running the tires too hard – 24 psi hot vs our usual 22 psi. Could also just be a bad batch of tires since we had plenty of failures so we may have been losing grip. Could also be I over-drove the car or underdrove the car for that matter. Right now I’m just guessing. Won’t know for sure why the afternoon times weren’t faster until I go through the data on the race computer for that day and compare it to Saturday’s times and Wednesday’s times. If I had to guess, I think I was making time in the corners, but lost it in the straights.
The splitter obviously was fine – no damage. Rattled at over 200kph so we’ll have to figure out a different way to anchor it.
As Martin was driving the car I saw the front wheel though and it looked like something was stuck to the inside sidewall. Pulled the tire off and there were 2 giant bulges on the inside of the sidewall on the driver’s side that’s what caused the . I’m baffled for what’s causing these tire failures at Mosport. I don’t see rubbing as an issue because we’ve run these tires all season. If we were going to have rubbing issues it would’ve presented itself much sooner at much tighter tracks. Besides, the bulges stuck out an inch on the inside sidewall and didn’t pop through the second half of the course on my last lap, so there’s more than a safe margin of clearance there.
Poured through the track photos looking to see if we were on any of the curbing and we were well clear of it from all the shots I’ve seen. The video of the car on 4 and 5 show we were well clear of the curbing there. We lost a total of 2 driver’s side tires and one passenger side tire in 3 track days. 2 of the tires were brand new on only run on the day they exploded. One was a spare rear tire that we ran on the front with only 2 competition days on it. We get very little rear tire wear so they had lots of rubber on them.
Tires weren’t overheating because we ran higher tire pressures and didn’t have any pyro readings over 145 degrees which is well-below the recommended operating temperatures for these tires. Besides, we’ve run these tires on much rougher tracks with lower pressures and higher tire temps without any issues. Mosport in general is easy on tires and brakes. Asked Jeff Wenzel if the heat from the turbo or the extra power or weight from the turbo on the front end could be responsible, but he doesn’t think so since lots of turbo cars run slicks without any issues.
Anyway, all 3 failed Goodyear bias ply tires are now with Jeff Wenzel at Tirecraft and being sent to the experts at Goodyear for evaluation. Really hoping they can give us a satisfactory explanation or at least clues as to what caused the failures. Also hoping they’re sympathetic to my plight and replace the tires for us. Had great success before this weekend with these tires.
Anyway lots of drama and frustration for a guy who still won his class class, and set the third fastest time of the day behind a 400+hp Z06 and corvette powered 240Z. We are still fielding the fastest FWD car in competition in this series by a good margin. The V8 Monte Carlo Nascar V8 monster thingy was really close on my tail for our class and Martin finished third with some really impressive and personal Mosport best times. Though I was disappointed in the 1:37.1, the 1:35.9 I did on Saturday really only would’ve moved to second fastest of the day and would have no effect on my overall class standings. Great day considering it’s only an eco-box on roids. Despite the setbacks it was a good weekend because we drove the car on the trailer at the end - that’s always a good day at Mosport.
Huge learning curve too, we had very little time to get us and the car up to speed. Huge props and a bit thank you goes to Paul and the crew at Splitfire for their support in the pits and for working on it after the first testing session, then giving up their Saturday night to make sure it was running and safe for Sunday.
Engine seems to take well to boost. Extra heat might make all the engine bits expand and seal up the rings because we weren’t losing oil or puffing between gears. Might also be the thicker turbo oil we switched to. Either way, awesomely fun car to drive.
Next up is an engine refresh, solid spherical bearings for the front lower control arms, solid spherical bearings for the rear camber arms, the tie rod ends were damaged probably from the vibration from the tire bubble so they’re both being replaced and hopefully getting someone to make us a proper, less mad-max looking front splitter.
Below is a video of the run in the afternoon. To give you an idea of speed differential, the viper was gridded behind me by 6 seconds on the warm up lap since I had caught the car in front of me on the previous session, I let the guy behind catch up about 3 seconds on the back straight during the warm up lap. But from turn 8 I was gone and didn’t see the Viper again even when I limped the car back into the pits.
Mosport event5 video by RRRex91 - Photobucket
<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i26.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid26.photobucket.com/albums/c102/RRRex91/mir1.flv">
Here’s a picture of my super cool ghetto splitter that’s in need of a re-design:
05-Aug-2009, 10:32 AM
#54
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 58
Maybe we'll have a motor in by then.
So took out the turbo car again on Monday at Mosport. Half way through the day developed a couple of exhaust leaks. Thinking about welding the turbo to the mani. We did tack weld it, but the welds gave out and the bolt still backed out. Also thinking about replacing the studs on the head with longer ones and double bolting it with lock washers. Are there any real solutions to these exhaust leaks or is this just a turbo thing?
So took out the turbo car again on Monday at Mosport. Half way through the day developed a couple of exhaust leaks. Thinking about welding the turbo to the mani. We did tack weld it, but the welds gave out and the bolt still backed out. Also thinking about replacing the studs on the head with longer ones and double bolting it with lock washers. Are there any real solutions to these exhaust leaks or is this just a turbo thing?
30-Aug-2009, 02:23 PM
#56
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 58
So one of our worst showings of the year happened last weekend at our competition at Mosport International Raceway. I get around to a full report later, but for now thought I’d share some track safety advice.
There are times on the racetrack where you know you’re going to crash and there’s nothing you can do about it but to take your hands off the wheel, cross them against your chest, close your eyes and imagine the tire wall is a big fluffy white pillow. Then there are times when you’re only slightly out of control and if you don’t panic, keep your head in the game and eyes up, you can use the little control you have to minimize damage to yourself and your car.
First tip:
Don’t fear the grass – fear going onto the grass sideways.
If you see you’re going to go off the track, for god’s sake drive off straight. There’s no point trying to fight with the car or trying to keep it on the track. If you slide off sideways there’s a good chance you’re going to catch the rim in grass and flip the car. There’s also the chance that if you try to save it you’ll overcorrect and slingshot across the other side of the track and hit the inside wall.
Below is a video from my off in turn 3 last Sunday at Mosport International Raceway. You can read the digital display on the dash you can see the max speed was 104mph – or 167kph. The front driver’s side tire blew and I instantly lost traction and steering. Since the car was going straight I just locked the wheels and waited. One thing you can notice from the video is how much speed you can scrub on the grass with locked wheels. The digital display on the right measures actual speed from GPS tracking - not wheel speed. When I felt I had scrubbed enough speed I let off the brakes, got my steering back and redirected the car away from the tires.
Had I felt I wasn’t scrubbing enough speed (wet grass etc) I never would have let off the brakes and just driven straight into the tires. There’s a bigger crumple zone in front then on the side. At that point it’s hands off the wheel, because on impact the wheel will jerk and you can break your thumbs. Arms crossed on the chest because you don’t want and arm dangling out the window if you roll and become unconscious. Eyes closed for two reasons; first being flying glass; second being you don’t want your body to know the exact moment of impact so it can’t prepare for it. Not sure how the second one minimizes injuries, just know it does.
FYI The noise you hear on turn 2 is the front splitter scraping the ground. The twitch you see on turn 1 exit is wheel spin from turbo spool in 4th gear.
YouTube - Miles Mosport Tire Failure Short
Second tip:
Eyes where you want to go. Don’t over-correct.
In the second video the backend steps out on me. Back story; turns out from my two offs and subsequent waiting on the grass for about 2 hours total to re-enter the pits, caused the turbo to heat-soak the head gasket, it baked, cracked, then excess oil vapour went through the valve cover, filled the catch can which then sent oil vapor through the breather and onto my rear tires. All I could feel was going down the hill and losing rear end traction.
The trick I find to catching a car that’s snap oversteering is always keep your eyes up, look where you think you can go safely, aim for that direction, don’t let off the gas, hold back steering wheel input by about 30% for your correction and try your best to drive out of it without a lot of correction.
The reason you keep your eyes up is because you’ll find your brain will make the corrections all by themselves, if you just look where you want to go. That leaves you free to focus on your tire traction and direction you need to go. Have years of track experience in very twitchy high-powered CRXs so the hold back steering input by 30% is just something I do - I have no reading or physical understanding of the geometry at play that I arrived at that number. For me, I’ve just always found the second tank slap to be far more dangerous and harder to control than the first. So I hold back steering input on the first slide, bring the car back in line gently and more often than not I avoid the second tank slapper altogether.
YouTube - Miles Mosport Ring Failure Short
I’ve always subscribed to seat of your pants driving. If you just listen to the tires and they’ll tell you what the limits are. I find memorizing visual markers mentally exhausting and unreliable – since IMO every lap is slightly different. Tires are always changing temperatures, engines always fluctuate in power, your lines are never truly the same, etc. If you come out a little hotter from one corner and are anchored to visual markers, you won’t adjust your new higher speed for the next corner, and you’re going to find yourself in trouble pretty quick.
Anyway, this is only my experience and my advice. I do a lot of instruction but very rarely do I go through crash avoidance techniques with students since there’s no real safe way to practice them and talking about something in the pits is no where near the same as demonstrating it. I hope this advice makes you safer on the track. Feel free to add your own safety tips and advice.
There are times on the racetrack where you know you’re going to crash and there’s nothing you can do about it but to take your hands off the wheel, cross them against your chest, close your eyes and imagine the tire wall is a big fluffy white pillow. Then there are times when you’re only slightly out of control and if you don’t panic, keep your head in the game and eyes up, you can use the little control you have to minimize damage to yourself and your car.
First tip:
Don’t fear the grass – fear going onto the grass sideways.
If you see you’re going to go off the track, for god’s sake drive off straight. There’s no point trying to fight with the car or trying to keep it on the track. If you slide off sideways there’s a good chance you’re going to catch the rim in grass and flip the car. There’s also the chance that if you try to save it you’ll overcorrect and slingshot across the other side of the track and hit the inside wall.
Below is a video from my off in turn 3 last Sunday at Mosport International Raceway. You can read the digital display on the dash you can see the max speed was 104mph – or 167kph. The front driver’s side tire blew and I instantly lost traction and steering. Since the car was going straight I just locked the wheels and waited. One thing you can notice from the video is how much speed you can scrub on the grass with locked wheels. The digital display on the right measures actual speed from GPS tracking - not wheel speed. When I felt I had scrubbed enough speed I let off the brakes, got my steering back and redirected the car away from the tires.
Had I felt I wasn’t scrubbing enough speed (wet grass etc) I never would have let off the brakes and just driven straight into the tires. There’s a bigger crumple zone in front then on the side. At that point it’s hands off the wheel, because on impact the wheel will jerk and you can break your thumbs. Arms crossed on the chest because you don’t want and arm dangling out the window if you roll and become unconscious. Eyes closed for two reasons; first being flying glass; second being you don’t want your body to know the exact moment of impact so it can’t prepare for it. Not sure how the second one minimizes injuries, just know it does.
FYI The noise you hear on turn 2 is the front splitter scraping the ground. The twitch you see on turn 1 exit is wheel spin from turbo spool in 4th gear.
YouTube - Miles Mosport Tire Failure Short
Second tip:
Eyes where you want to go. Don’t over-correct.
In the second video the backend steps out on me. Back story; turns out from my two offs and subsequent waiting on the grass for about 2 hours total to re-enter the pits, caused the turbo to heat-soak the head gasket, it baked, cracked, then excess oil vapour went through the valve cover, filled the catch can which then sent oil vapor through the breather and onto my rear tires. All I could feel was going down the hill and losing rear end traction.
The trick I find to catching a car that’s snap oversteering is always keep your eyes up, look where you think you can go safely, aim for that direction, don’t let off the gas, hold back steering wheel input by about 30% for your correction and try your best to drive out of it without a lot of correction.
The reason you keep your eyes up is because you’ll find your brain will make the corrections all by themselves, if you just look where you want to go. That leaves you free to focus on your tire traction and direction you need to go. Have years of track experience in very twitchy high-powered CRXs so the hold back steering input by 30% is just something I do - I have no reading or physical understanding of the geometry at play that I arrived at that number. For me, I’ve just always found the second tank slap to be far more dangerous and harder to control than the first. So I hold back steering input on the first slide, bring the car back in line gently and more often than not I avoid the second tank slapper altogether.
YouTube - Miles Mosport Ring Failure Short
I’ve always subscribed to seat of your pants driving. If you just listen to the tires and they’ll tell you what the limits are. I find memorizing visual markers mentally exhausting and unreliable – since IMO every lap is slightly different. Tires are always changing temperatures, engines always fluctuate in power, your lines are never truly the same, etc. If you come out a little hotter from one corner and are anchored to visual markers, you won’t adjust your new higher speed for the next corner, and you’re going to find yourself in trouble pretty quick.
Anyway, this is only my experience and my advice. I do a lot of instruction but very rarely do I go through crash avoidance techniques with students since there’s no real safe way to practice them and talking about something in the pits is no where near the same as demonstrating it. I hope this advice makes you safer on the track. Feel free to add your own safety tips and advice.
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