civicEJ1

iTrader: (2)

ditto

ive had this chat with cops allllll the time i used to think u couldnt get pulled over unless u were doing something wrong, but its a privledge to drive on these roads of ontario. and u must have proper documents.

i get pulled over for nothing allllllllllllllllllllllll the time.

civicEJ1

iTrader: (2)

thats true some cops wont bother giving u a ticket for no front plate, theyll just give u a warning anfd tell u to put it on asap and maybe mark u in the system say that uve bene warned.

but that goes for any ticket or charge they give someone, its always to their discretion.

subsonic-civic

iTrader: (2)

no they dont. at least they didnt when i got pulled over.

THey pulled me over. then left.

I was driving South on Kennedy at 11ish pm, fri night. I was at a red at 14th, left lane. Light goes green. Car in front of me decides to go 50km/h. so i check my blind spot (i always do this). No cars whatsoever, and i switch out to the right lane. Then 2 seconds later, out of nowhere, i see a cop with his strobes on. I go, wtf, where'd he come from?!??! SO i pull into a right turn lane (going into the mcd's), and he follows me. I go oh sheit, wtf, i was barely going 60km/h as is. So i pull into the entrance of the mc'd (didnt wanna be on the road). The cop shined his light at me for 15 secs, turned all his lights off, then did a lil 180 peelout and floored it down kennedy at well over 90km/h. This was last yr.... in august or so.

subsonic-civic

iTrader: (2)

I thought they need a warrant to search your car. They can check for proper docs, that i know. But they're not allowed to search your car unless either you give them permission, or they have proper warrants.

Also, for those who do took off their front plates and havn't been pulled for them. I would think it is safe to assume cops will be increasing likelihood of pulling ppl for this. The city is needs more money. If they're pulling ppl for going 10 over, they'll likely be pulling ppl over for no front plates more now. Before they just didnt wanna bother.

civicEJ1

iTrader: (2)

bro, ask any cop they can pull you over for anything whether they feel ur car is too low, or they just want to make sure you uahve proper documents. theres no arguement ive spoke to several cops and its just the way it is.

and u noe wat its funny this thread was made because a cop came into my work yesterday for an oil change in his JDM toyota vitz. but we didnt noe he was one until he told us.

he parked out front and i saw the white sporty looking yaris with the japanese front plate. so w.e wen he came in i asked him if he ever gets harassed by police for not having a proper front plate or is it not illegal and this york region officer thats been in the force for 3 years says" well actually it is illegal, but me actually being a cop i dont really get in trouble" he told me cops cant tell other cops their cops but when they pull their wallet out then can kinda show them their badge and 9.5 times out of 10 they get let go.

he also said theirs no way for any cop to tell u if ur exhaust is too loud. this COP told me its bull **** and the only wayto tell if ur car is louder than another car is to use a DECIBAL gun and measure that way and not one cop car has one in their car or carrys it.

and he said the only way to tell if ur car is too low is to pull out a meauring tape and theres a certain height the middle of ur headlight should be off the ground. theres no such thing as wheel well clearence or any other bull ****

the cop told me he owns that jdm toyota vitz ( BTW he says he noes peple high up in toyota and he got them to import this 07 toyota vitz in to canada and they swited the dash and everything over to the left hand side since u cant import a car younger than 15 years old) but yea he has the vitz, a corolla and a toyota solero supercharged and it was a show car.

i asked him where he patrolls and he said maple and i laughed and said u probably see street races all the time eh, and he goes " ah w/e if its 2 or 3 oclock in the mornign who cares, theres no one on the road" and i laughed because this isa cop telling me its ok to race at 2 or 3 oclock in the morning on main roads. but it gets even funnier.

he goes if u really wanna race, theres a place in scarborough near port union and its the most sound deadening place. LOL hes like u can do runs all night in that place and he told me exactly where it was.

then i told him im a honda guy since he seemed like a serious toyota guy and he said yeah he used to have a 98 GSR wen he was younger ahaha and he said he used to race alll the time.

cr8tive_leo

^ Happens all the time, and it's so wrong. Get his badge number and let the Cheif LaBarge know. He'll mow his *** for doing **** like that.

BlitzSix

Where are you getting all this information ??

They allow search without a warrant only if they have probably cause (they see an open beer, so they search your car for alocohol).

Have you heard of the case where a cop saw a van with no front plates, lit up his cherries to pull him over, then realized it had Alberta plates so it's not illegal, but he pulled him over anyways just cause he had his cherries on, and found 35 keys in the trunk?

TheStar.com | Opinion | Slippery slope in court ruling

TheStar.com | Ontario | Court allows unjust searches

The case revolves around Bradley Harrison, who along with a friend was pulled over by OPP Constable Brian Bertoncello while driving near Kirkland Lake in 2004. At trial, Bertoncello said he decided to stop Harrison's SUV because it was missing a front licence plate, even though he quickly realized the vehicle was registered in Alberta, where front plates aren't required. He also said Harrison was not driving in excess of the speed limit. What was Bertoncello's reason for nonetheless stopping a driver who apparently was doing nothing wrong? He had turned his emergency lights on, and felt it would reflect badly on his "integrity" if he didn't follow through.
Despite the fact he had no reason to stop Harrison in the first place, Bertoncello ran his name through a police database and discovered his driver's licence had been suspended.

They would NOT keep emphasizing that he was stopped for no reason if it was perfectly legal for cops to randomly pull people over. The fac tthat he shouldn't have been stopped is a big part of the case. The search was illegal, too, but so was the stop, because the cop had no probable cause, but pulled him over anyways.



Cops do tons of things that they aren't supposed to, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable...

civicEJ1

iTrader: (2)

ok thats the medias exciting way of telling the story

ok so what if it was an alberta plate and he doesnt have to have one on the front.

what if the cop didnt pull him over, drove up behind him, ran his plates and pulled up the owner of the vehicles name. ran his name and saw that his license was suspended?

an offence that gives the cop reasonable grounds to stop this vehicle and give him a ticket. and if this guys driving with 35 kilos of blow in the back with a suspended license,

u have a stupid criminal that needs some time in jail.

and plus thats alberta, the laws are different in all provinces of Canada and we live in ontario and in ontario, police dont need any reasonable cause to pull anyone over.


the fact that he searched their vehicle is irrelevant to the fact that he pulled them over and DID in fact catch them breaking the law (driving with a suspended license) finding 25 million dollars worth of coke was just a plus

u cant say u werent there, u dont noe how those 2 guys were acting wen they got pulled over. u think ur juss gonna sit their calmly knowing u have 35 keys in the back seat and ur being pulled over by police? that cop probably smelt the guy shitting his pants and thought something was up.

morjx

I got pulled over in sauga by a lady cop. Bitch said I was speeding but I know I wasn't speeding cuz I got a ticket the week before and was very careful with my speed lol. anyways this bitch called backup and searched my ****in car for no reason. I didn't really care cuz I had nothing to hide and I couldn't do **** cuz a judge will take a cops word over anybody's any day. I guess that bitch was on her rag or something lol

T-MacK

Thet day I got stopped for not having my plate on my car, the cop told me he initialy stopped me for speeding but never ended up giving me a speeding ticket? WtF!
Then he wrote me up for the front plate and treated me like I was rolling with 20 k's of crack in the car!! Then gave me a Robo Cop speach the whole time I'm late for work. Bitch!

FiveO

I'm well aware of that case. The problem is the way the cop articulated the reason for the stop in court. Had he stated that he simply wanted to do a documentation check, the stop would have been completely legitimate. The cop didn't say that though - he said he continued the stop only to effectively "save face" once he realized that Alberta does not require front license plates. That reasoning did not constitute a valid stop and subsequent search.

The legality of random stops of drivers by police was affirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada in Dedman v. The Queen, [1985] .

While the Dedman case specifically referred to a case a driver being charged as a result of being stopped at a random RIDE check, the Supreme Court justices referred back to the British common law precedent set by R. v. Waterfield, [1963] and stated the following:
Ontario specifically regulates driving through the HTA, and the HTA permits random stops to check for documentation. To date, the Supreme Court of Canada has not struck down the legality of police making random vehicle stops for documentation checks.


Regarding search without warrant, it's written into many different parts of provincial offences law.

The HTA specifically allows for warrantless searches of a vehicle in 41.2.(12) for presence of working and untampered alcohol ignition interlock devices, in 58.2.(3) to examine cars used by licensed driver ed schools, 79.(3) for radar detectors, in 79.1.(3) for searching for traffic light pre-empting devices like those used on fire trucks, in 191.3.(2) to search for flip-plate or other active or passive license plate obscuring mechanisms.

In none of the above circumstances does the cops need to have actually seen the offending devices (or absence thereof). Merely suspecting is grounds enough to do the search. Additional parts of the HTA allow for roadside inspections (another form of "search" of your vehicle for safey and mechanical fitness without a warrant.

The Liquor License Act allows for warrantless searches of a vehicle as per 32.(5) if a cop suspects that liquor is being unlawfully kept on or in it. You smelling of alcohol or appearing impaired is enough to provide reasonable suspicion.

Under the Tobacco tax Act, 6.(6) allows for warrantless searches if an inspector believes a vehicle to be carrying contraband.

The Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act allows warrantless searches even in cases where a warrant would normally be required in 91.(2). Ditto 42.(1) of the Provincial Parks and Conservation Reserves Act.

On top of that comes additional warrantless search powers under the Criminal Code. If you've just been pulled out of your car and arrested for dangerous driving, impaired, drug possession, or many other criminal offences, your car is fair game for search without warrant.

Even in cases where a warrant IS normally required for a search, Provincial and criminal law each provide for search without warrant if circumstances demand it, such as an immediate search being needed to preserve and prevent the destruction or loss of evidence. The legal term is "exigent circumstances".

DumbasSi

Don't forget the MTO or CBSA Officers. They can search and seize too. I'm also guessing that MNR and CP Rail Officers have similar powers under certain circumstances.

I think it's safe to say that FiveO knows more about the HTA then the rest of us.

subsonic-civic

iTrader: (2)

True. but what can i do bout it? nothing. im not gonna chase him back asking him y haha. The other time, i was in my TL (dad's), and i had a cop tailgating me from sheppard and mccowan all the way to brimley and huntingwood. no lights or anything. He was running my plates and trying to get a good look at my face. All of a sudden he slams his brakes and U-turns back.

morjx

this is funny. It went from someone asking whether it is legal to have no front license plate to an all out debate whether or not cops can stop you for no reason lol

civicEJ1

iTrader: (2)

see in ur case u didnt have ot let her search u. i dont noe why u did. she had no reasonable gournds to search ur car unless u consent and say "ok u can search my car"

morjx

I say no and then what? bam **** gives me a speeding ticket. Even though I know I wasn't speeding, what kind of judge would take a kid's word over a cop's?

FiveO

Within their particular spheres of enforcement, yes, they do.

Here's one for you. Did you know that having your car impounded for stunting or racing gives the cops requisite cause to conduct a full and unfettered contents search of your car prior to taking it into impound custody?


The HTA is an easy read and there are plenty of places you can read up on various decisions from the bench. You don't need a law degree or police foundations course to know in broad strokes what can and can't be done under the HTA. You just need to know where to look and spend a bit of time reading every now and then.

The Toronto Star or Sun are not the best places for the detail stuff. ;D