Is It Illegal To Run Without A Cat?
13-Nov-2006, 06:05 PM
#41
not that I would recommend running without a cat... my DD registers maybe a tenth of what's allowed to pass... I keep my cars in tip top shape... but I think it's super ignorant to blast on a group of ppl who are passionate about their cars based on a few dumbasses whose cars run like crap. we don't all fit into this category just because we drive hondas.
and for the record, cars without cats can easily pass any emissions test administered with a gas analyser (obviously not a visual test, but I fail to see the relevance of a visual test if it passes the sniffer) if they are properly tuned.
and for the record, cars without cats can easily pass any emissions test administered with a gas analyser (obviously not a visual test, but I fail to see the relevance of a visual test if it passes the sniffer) if they are properly tuned.
13-Nov-2006, 06:24 PM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 205
Earlier in the summer i was on my way home from a car show in peterbrough.. streetsweepers, A group of 8 or 9 of us were driving back on #35 towards the 401, on this stretch of highway the officals would wait on the onramps, and jump on when they seen someone suspecious..
Me, i was at the back of the pack, driving my crx with no bumper cover on (oops) (it was running hot)... so i got pulled over by 2 officers from the environmental (white cars with the green writing i believe).. He basically just asked me to pop my hood, and wait while they inspected my veichle, then called me over and asked me to tell them about the modifications.. I was very polite with them, anyways.
They checked for basically everything regarding emissions, PCV, Sensors hooked up, Charcoal canister, Cat, etc. They didnt care that it was a swapped and boosted motor, although my charcoal canister wasnt hooked up properly.. so after he relized i had no EGR, he slapped me with a $380 ticket, and left. Say you have a H22 Crx, H22 has EGR, but CRX dosent, so they wont catch on.
Before he left, he did tell me the tickets are so high because if they were only 50-80, people would just blow them off, and that i should fight it and just explain that i didnt know it was hooked up wrong (i gave him a story) etc.
So i pay the ticket say **** it, and a few weeks later, i get my cheque back in the mail, the officer never filed the ticket, so i got off. Although i did make it look like my canister was hooked up properly, (just make sure theres no open vac lines).
Lucky they didnt see my PCV.. Geesh, haha, open loop, with no plug in the bottom of the catchcan, oil mist when i get on it
So yeah.. They are out there, and they will find you, just do yourself a favour and run even a high flow cat, and 7-10hp gain for no cat, thats BS, maybe on a built 84mm B series untuned running a clogged cat, vs tuned with no cat haha. On your setup it wont be noticable, just run a highflow. Pick up one from canadian tire the magnflow ones are decent, for like 80 bucks. Plus the smell of rotten eggs from your ride isnt appealing eaither.
Just if you ever get pulled over, be polite with the officers, because if they find ANYTHING wrong they can rape you.. And if the environment cant, they can call the MTO, and guarenteed they will.
EDIT: also, they did spend about an hour with me, 45minutes of it both of them inspecting my veichle. They usually dont miss much! But have no idea really what there looking at lol.
****.. If you dont want a cat, just get some of those skins for it and put around your test pipe, even tack weld it up so it passes a visual!
Me, i was at the back of the pack, driving my crx with no bumper cover on (oops) (it was running hot)... so i got pulled over by 2 officers from the environmental (white cars with the green writing i believe).. He basically just asked me to pop my hood, and wait while they inspected my veichle, then called me over and asked me to tell them about the modifications.. I was very polite with them, anyways.
They checked for basically everything regarding emissions, PCV, Sensors hooked up, Charcoal canister, Cat, etc. They didnt care that it was a swapped and boosted motor, although my charcoal canister wasnt hooked up properly.. so after he relized i had no EGR, he slapped me with a $380 ticket, and left. Say you have a H22 Crx, H22 has EGR, but CRX dosent, so they wont catch on.
Before he left, he did tell me the tickets are so high because if they were only 50-80, people would just blow them off, and that i should fight it and just explain that i didnt know it was hooked up wrong (i gave him a story) etc.
So i pay the ticket say **** it, and a few weeks later, i get my cheque back in the mail, the officer never filed the ticket, so i got off. Although i did make it look like my canister was hooked up properly, (just make sure theres no open vac lines).
Lucky they didnt see my PCV.. Geesh, haha, open loop, with no plug in the bottom of the catchcan, oil mist when i get on it
So yeah.. They are out there, and they will find you, just do yourself a favour and run even a high flow cat, and 7-10hp gain for no cat, thats BS, maybe on a built 84mm B series untuned running a clogged cat, vs tuned with no cat haha. On your setup it wont be noticable, just run a highflow. Pick up one from canadian tire the magnflow ones are decent, for like 80 bucks. Plus the smell of rotten eggs from your ride isnt appealing eaither.
Just if you ever get pulled over, be polite with the officers, because if they find ANYTHING wrong they can rape you.. And if the environment cant, they can call the MTO, and guarenteed they will.
EDIT: also, they did spend about an hour with me, 45minutes of it both of them inspecting my veichle. They usually dont miss much! But have no idea really what there looking at lol.
****.. If you dont want a cat, just get some of those skins for it and put around your test pipe, even tack weld it up so it passes a visual!
13-Nov-2006, 06:26 PM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Moon
Posts: 8,921
Originally posted by marker
Nope. Look into the penalties outlined in the Environmental Protection Act, specifically Part V.1, ss 48 to 55. They can go very very far.
Nope. Look into the penalties outlined in the Environmental Protection Act, specifically Part V.1, ss 48 to 55. They can go very very far.
at the end of the day its still under the officers discretion.
and based on the numerous stories i have heard from people who have had their car's checked for no cats this is what happened.
13-Nov-2006, 06:47 PM
#45
Originally posted by Team Rukus
the law can say whatever it wants.
the law can say whatever it wants.
163. (1) Every one commits an offence who
(a) makes, prints, publishes, distributes, circulates, or has in his possession for the purpose of publication, distribution or circulation any obscene written matter, picture, model, phonograph record or other thing whatever; or
(b) makes, prints, publishes, distributes, sells or has in his possession for the purpose of publication, distribution or circulation a crime comic.
marker, why don't you go hang out at the local 7-11 and bust ppl buying hustler and lil kids buying comic books, then go down to the HMV and seize all the CDs with explicit lyrics?
13-Nov-2006, 07:24 PM
#46
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 354
Originally posted by Team Rukus
the law can say whatever it wants.
at the end of the day its still under the officers discretion.
and based on the numerous stories i have heard from people who have had their car's checked for no cats this is what happened.
the law can say whatever it wants.
at the end of the day its still under the officers discretion.
and based on the numerous stories i have heard from people who have had their car's checked for no cats this is what happened.
And they don't always impound and/or crush your car if you're caught street racing. Care to gamble on the odds?
Some get nipped, others get bitten real hard. With increased emphasis on environmental pollutants, emissions enforcement and penalties is going to get nothing but togher these days.
The question you need to ask when doing crap like this is not whether or not they'll be easy on you if you get caught, but whether or not you are ready to take the full hit if you get caught and they decide to make an example of you.
13-Nov-2006, 07:38 PM
#47
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 354
Originally posted by bbarbulo
yeah... it's not all the industrial pollution that poisons our water and air... it's a handfull of '***-hats' with modified cars
you should stick a catalytic converter in my *** too... I bet that'll help with greenhouse gasses rather than tightening up the leash on industry.
have you ever stopped to consider how much pollution and gasoline your police force produces and uses, respectively?
I've never seen a cop car turned off... always see them sitting there idling away, polluting the air I breathe. my engine, 1.5 liter... yours... 4.6 liter. at 800 rpm idle, you will burn more gas and create more pollution.
yeah... it's not all the industrial pollution that poisons our water and air... it's a handfull of '***-hats' with modified cars
you should stick a catalytic converter in my *** too... I bet that'll help with greenhouse gasses rather than tightening up the leash on industry.
have you ever stopped to consider how much pollution and gasoline your police force produces and uses, respectively?
I've never seen a cop car turned off... always see them sitting there idling away, polluting the air I breathe. my engine, 1.5 liter... yours... 4.6 liter. at 800 rpm idle, you will burn more gas and create more pollution.
Industry is having controls imposed on them too, and their fines and penalties are a hell of a lot higher than that faced by asshats in illegally modified cars. Note the distinction between legal and illegal.
I'm not going to quibble about a cop and his or her vehicle. That vehicle is a cop's office, complete with heat and air conditioning that needs an engine to work. If it's running all the time, it's also because the vehicle is in service all the time, with onboard computers, radio and other electronics that take a lot of power. I would rather see that cruiser idling and ready to go on an emergency run if needed, than see it with engine turned off and then unable to start because of a dead battery.
I'm also not going to quibble about differences in vehicle size. I doubt that your 1.5 liter vehicle is ever going to have to do high-speed pursuit and boxing-in duty to stop a fleeing vehicle, nor will it ever do roadblock duty, nor will it ever have to do prisoner transport. Your trunk doesn't need to hold the plethora of emergency gear and electronics typically found in the trunk of today's cruisers.
When your car has to do the same duty as a police cruiser does in a typical day, then come back and argue that point.
In the meantime, asshats who disable or remove parts of their emissions controls should be taken off the road, just the same as cottage owners who spew their toilet waste in the streams and lakes should be immediately dealt with. Both types of polluters have the same mindset and are the same kind of people.
13-Nov-2006, 08:26 PM
#48
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 137
you guys don't understand
for K-series if you want to run header that makes any power u have to ditch cat.
for K-series if you want to run header that makes any power u have to ditch cat.
13-Nov-2006, 08:48 PM
#49
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: North York, Toronto-Downtown, London
Posts: 2,316
Originally posted by Cynikal.Mindset
350bucks and impound
350bucks and impound
and impound often means lots of scratches and some damage here and there when you pick it up
14-Nov-2006, 02:36 AM
#50
Originally posted by marker
Industry is having controls imposed on them too, and their fines and penalties are a hell of a lot higher than that faced by asshats in illegally modified cars. Note the distinction between legal and illegal.
I'm not going to quibble about a cop and his or her vehicle. That vehicle is a cop's office, complete with heat and air conditioning that needs an engine to work. If it's running all the time, it's also because the vehicle is in service all the time, with onboard computers, radio and other electronics that take a lot of power. I would rather see that cruiser idling and ready to go on an emergency run if needed, than see it with engine turned off and then unable to start because of a dead battery.
I'm also not going to quibble about differences in vehicle size. I doubt that your 1.5 liter vehicle is ever going to have to do high-speed pursuit and boxing-in duty to stop a fleeing vehicle, nor will it ever do roadblock duty, nor will it ever have to do prisoner transport. Your trunk doesn't need to hold the plethora of emergency gear and electronics typically found in the trunk of today's cruisers.
When your car has to do the same duty as a police cruiser does in a typical day, then come back and argue that point.
In the meantime, asshats who disable or remove parts of their emissions controls should be taken off the road, just the same as cottage owners who spew their toilet waste in the streams and lakes should be immediately dealt with. Both types of polluters have the same mindset and are the same kind of people.
Industry is having controls imposed on them too, and their fines and penalties are a hell of a lot higher than that faced by asshats in illegally modified cars. Note the distinction between legal and illegal.
I'm not going to quibble about a cop and his or her vehicle. That vehicle is a cop's office, complete with heat and air conditioning that needs an engine to work. If it's running all the time, it's also because the vehicle is in service all the time, with onboard computers, radio and other electronics that take a lot of power. I would rather see that cruiser idling and ready to go on an emergency run if needed, than see it with engine turned off and then unable to start because of a dead battery.
I'm also not going to quibble about differences in vehicle size. I doubt that your 1.5 liter vehicle is ever going to have to do high-speed pursuit and boxing-in duty to stop a fleeing vehicle, nor will it ever do roadblock duty, nor will it ever have to do prisoner transport. Your trunk doesn't need to hold the plethora of emergency gear and electronics typically found in the trunk of today's cruisers.
When your car has to do the same duty as a police cruiser does in a typical day, then come back and argue that point.
In the meantime, asshats who disable or remove parts of their emissions controls should be taken off the road, just the same as cottage owners who spew their toilet waste in the streams and lakes should be immediately dealt with. Both types of polluters have the same mindset and are the same kind of people.
and please don't tell me you use your vehicles to stop crime. your response to most crimes consists of.... 'well we don't care, odds are we won't catch the guy... just call your insurance company, they'll take care of that. oh... a statement... sure I guess we could take one of those'. I've been robbed at work, robbed at home, car broken into, assaulted a few times.... nope never any help from the cops.
so don't expect me to bow down to you when you hide behind the cover "to serve and protect". anyone over 6 years of age knows better. as for how 'hard' your car has to work, it doesn't matter... the same goes for any SUV, minivan, and truck on the road that one guy takes to work and sits in traffic for 2 hours every day. yet the amount of pollutants he puts out is allowed to be far greater than what supposedly an 'illegaly' modified honda would put out in a whole month. (exaggeration for effect)
when was the last time you went on a high speed pursuit that didn't involve getting hot pizza or timmies coffee back to the station? yeah, didn't think so. last time you did something like that was back in training.
and yeah... we're all the same. we won't let you tell us how we can or can not modify our cars.
14-Nov-2006, 07:24 AM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by Andrey
you guys don't understand
for K-series if you want to run header that makes any power u have to ditch cat.
you guys don't understand
for K-series if you want to run header that makes any power u have to ditch cat.
I don't feel like going through all that bullsh*t just for not running the cat anyways, sure would be nice but under these circumstances....I won't.
14-Nov-2006, 09:06 AM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ontario
Posts: 18,367
Guys, relax.
There is an old saying in Chinese:
"Crime and good deed shouldn't be judged on its seriousness"
Meaning, it is not ok to committ a crime because it is not serious, or hurting anyone; and good deeds should be performed out of one's heart, not because it can be recognized.
Pollution is bad, period. Just because the guy next door is doing it, it doesn't justify you following his act. Bad things multiply quickly. If you follow him, then there are two of you that are doing it. But if you correct him, or advise him, there are two less people doing it.
I really dislike the excuse "I am doing it because he/she is doing it".
Don't use others as excuses for your own act.
"I will come to this party if so and so go...", "I will go if there are enough people..." Have you ever wondered a party is consisted of people, if everyone thought the same, who the hell is gonna show up?
It is all the same analogy, to me anyway.
Bottom line, do what is right and leave it like that. One less person polluting is one less person polluting. It is a good deed, do it. I am not gonna go around preaching and yelling at those who don't run a catalytic converter, but I know I do and that is that.
There is an old saying in Chinese:
"Crime and good deed shouldn't be judged on its seriousness"
Meaning, it is not ok to committ a crime because it is not serious, or hurting anyone; and good deeds should be performed out of one's heart, not because it can be recognized.
Pollution is bad, period. Just because the guy next door is doing it, it doesn't justify you following his act. Bad things multiply quickly. If you follow him, then there are two of you that are doing it. But if you correct him, or advise him, there are two less people doing it.
I really dislike the excuse "I am doing it because he/she is doing it".
Don't use others as excuses for your own act.
"I will come to this party if so and so go...", "I will go if there are enough people..." Have you ever wondered a party is consisted of people, if everyone thought the same, who the hell is gonna show up?
It is all the same analogy, to me anyway.
Bottom line, do what is right and leave it like that. One less person polluting is one less person polluting. It is a good deed, do it. I am not gonna go around preaching and yelling at those who don't run a catalytic converter, but I know I do and that is that.
14-Nov-2006, 11:56 AM
#53
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Where ever my car is...
Posts: 1,393
It all comes down to this:
Run your cat or not. If you don't, realize you could get caught and therefore must pay the consequences.
Case closed.
Run your cat or not. If you don't, realize you could get caught and therefore must pay the consequences.
Case closed.
14-Nov-2006, 01:26 PM
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Photographer's Corner
Posts: 13,424
dem polluters
14-Nov-2006, 01:38 PM
#55
Nova_Dust, that's not the point... I don't plan to remove my cat just cuz all the WRX guys are doing it. It's not a matter of he's doing it, so will I. Not at all.
It's a matter of having the personal freedom to make whatever modifications I want, right up to polluting to the maxium allowable limit by the gas analyzer. And why to the maximum.... cuz this guy seems to think there is all sorts of wisdom that went into figuring out how much pollution each of us can produce without harming the environment, apparently totally unrelated to how many kms a year we drive.... so since marker believes it, so will I. Therefore, I will produce the maximum pollution allowable since it MUST be the case that if I'm within the legal arbitrary limits, I'm not being an asshat, and I'm not harming the environment.
I wonder what the world would be like if we all drove Explorers and Tahoes.
It's a matter of having the personal freedom to make whatever modifications I want, right up to polluting to the maxium allowable limit by the gas analyzer. And why to the maximum.... cuz this guy seems to think there is all sorts of wisdom that went into figuring out how much pollution each of us can produce without harming the environment, apparently totally unrelated to how many kms a year we drive.... so since marker believes it, so will I. Therefore, I will produce the maximum pollution allowable since it MUST be the case that if I'm within the legal arbitrary limits, I'm not being an asshat, and I'm not harming the environment.
I wonder what the world would be like if we all drove Explorers and Tahoes.
14-Nov-2006, 02:17 PM
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ontario
Posts: 18,367
Bruno, I guess I am looking at it as a black or white thing. 
14-Nov-2006, 03:10 PM
#57
i always knew you were racist charles 
I'm not arguing for or against. Personally, I'm against government intervention, I'd rather have everything privatized. But that's from a theoretical economic standpoint. In practice, the country would be a mess without government.
However, I wish ppl were more open minded about how law is made and what it reflects. Do these guys on Parliament Hill know what 500 ppm of NOx really means? Do they know what a catalytic converter does? Do they know what a charcoal cannister does or why a PCV valve is needed? Look at europe... you have a large displacement engine, you get taxed out the *** because you are an energy hog and a polluter, more so than smaller vehicles. Yet, here... we just accept that everyone drives SUVs and trucks, and heck... let's let them pollute more. Cuz that's what the lobby groups, funded my domestic manufacturers whose largest profit margins (at the time) were SUVs and trucks, want us to do. That's why I call it a cash grab, both from the gov't side and the lobbying side.
I'm not arguing for or against. Personally, I'm against government intervention, I'd rather have everything privatized. But that's from a theoretical economic standpoint. In practice, the country would be a mess without government.
However, I wish ppl were more open minded about how law is made and what it reflects. Do these guys on Parliament Hill know what 500 ppm of NOx really means? Do they know what a catalytic converter does? Do they know what a charcoal cannister does or why a PCV valve is needed? Look at europe... you have a large displacement engine, you get taxed out the *** because you are an energy hog and a polluter, more so than smaller vehicles. Yet, here... we just accept that everyone drives SUVs and trucks, and heck... let's let them pollute more. Cuz that's what the lobby groups, funded my domestic manufacturers whose largest profit margins (at the time) were SUVs and trucks, want us to do. That's why I call it a cash grab, both from the gov't side and the lobbying side.
15-Nov-2006, 08:35 AM
#58
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: (Toronto)
Posts: 3,744
damn... for a admin, u sure are ignorant.
the law is the law. follow it. simple as that.
there are lots of things against the law that dont make sense to people. but that doesnt mean you should be able to do whatever you want.
the law is the law. follow it. simple as that.
there are lots of things against the law that dont make sense to people. but that doesnt mean you should be able to do whatever you want.
15-Nov-2006, 01:48 PM
#59
Originally posted by hdave
damn... for a admin, u sure are ignorant.
the law is the law. follow it. simple as that.
there are lots of things against the law that dont make sense to people. but that doesnt mean you should be able to do whatever you want.
damn... for a admin, u sure are ignorant.
the law is the law. follow it. simple as that.
there are lots of things against the law that dont make sense to people. but that doesnt mean you should be able to do whatever you want.
I never said I don't follow the law. I do, and I think ppl should.
I argue, however, not to follow it blindly because it's the law, but to think about what the law really means and why it is the way it is. Like I said, not punishing large displacement vehicles for the pollution they produce, and not basing pollution allowance based on annual mileage is abolutely ridiculous and makes me think the law-makers really don't care.
I think those who follow the law blindly are the ingorant ones, much like marker and yourself.
15-Nov-2006, 08:36 PM
#60
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,266
Originally posted by hdave
damn... for a admin, u sure are ignorant.
the law is the law. follow it. simple as that.
there are lots of things against the law that dont make sense to people. but that doesnt mean you should be able to do whatever you want.
damn... for a admin, u sure are ignorant.
the law is the law. follow it. simple as that.
there are lots of things against the law that dont make sense to people. but that doesnt mean you should be able to do whatever you want.
