imported_alwaysoverkill

hey everyone. i'm seriously thinking of selling my 1.6 and going to the 2001 or 2002 civic sedan or coupe.

- any big problem area's on the 7th gens?

- hows the fuel milage of the new 1.7 vtec pretty much same as 1.6 D16Y8?

- i'd be going from a lowered amazing handling 1.6 on 17's with toyo proxes 4 to the stock civic, but the civic would be newer with less km and would be a new project...although mods would be awhile before i could do them (skunk2 short shifter would be first again, i love it)

i'm just looking for feedback, would you guys keep the modded EL or go stock newer civic

EL has:
17" rims with 205/40/17 toyo 4
H&R sports on tokico illumina's
skunk2 shifter w/dc ****
tint and some other DIY ****
just dumped $1000 on maintenace/safety, etc like 2 months ago.

but 175,000km.

DumbasSi

Well, I have a 98 Civic (6th Gen) and an 03 Civic (7th Gen) so I think I can really compare them just because I drive and have modded both. Your 1.6 is basically the same as my Si and a new EL is basically the same as my 03.

This is what I my wife thinks. I asked for her opinion just because she's into cars and she will be honest.
03 positives - nicer interior, better on gas, quieter, newer, looks maybe.
03 negative - aftermarket parts (suspension mostly) is very limited, cable shifter is sloppy, big blind spots, uncomfortable seats.

98 positive - better looking in my opinion, TONS of parts available, handles better becasue of the suspension design, swaps.
98 negative - it's getting old (maintenance is starting to cost $$$), theft rate (broken into twice in 1 year), noisy.

I can add more later, but that's all I can think of for now. I'd say 6th Gen for performance, 7th Gen for long term.

imported_QUICKONTHEGAS

What I would do is...well you havn't really put TOO much into the 1.6 so I would go with whatever is more pratical. Plus if you went with the 7th Gen its a brand new project ie. start all over. How I see it is....keep building on what you got or start over on something new.

dropgear

The 7th gen Civic/2nd gen EL's have been cheapened slightly (compared to the 1.6's), and outdone by many of their competitors in terms of performance, bang-for-buck, etc.

If I was you, I'd hold off with replacing the EL until the end of the summer.. Wait until this September, and see if you don't like what the new 2.0EL has to offer.

imported_GoldBadge

I personally think that the 7th gen civics were a bit of a flop as far as modifying goes. They're great daily drivers, though.

imported_alwaysoverkill

hmm good points, ya i forgot, isn't the suspension on the 7th gen completely different then the 6th gens, meaning the 6th gens handle better. i'll look into that more.

i wouldn't be going new anyways, i see some 7th gen sedans for $11k-$13k thats why i'm considering it.

dropgear

The biggest difference is this: 7th gen (2001+) have a MacPherson 3 axis strut system with a 'questionable' steering arm setup. The < 6th gen (92-00??) have a perfected 4 axis double-wishbone suspension setup. That extra "axis" adds stability. Double wishbone behaves much better under load (when lowered, in bouncy situations, heavy cornering, etc.) MacPherson is cheaper and less complicated, but ultimately, in Honda trim, inferior.

What else... oh yeah, 6th gen are lighter (thus quite a bit noisier). Your EL has a 15mm rear sway bar, a thicker subframe, and a 21mm front sway-bar. The only other USDM car that Honda makes with that setup is the Integra GS-R. Your VTEC is real VTEC (2nd set of cam lobes, VTEC solenoid), while the Civic sedans don't have VTEC... and the D17A2 is "fake" VTEC (not variable timing, variable valve lift.... silly..)

7th gens have better power components (door locks, windows, steering pumps, etc.), are better on gas, and are generally quieter and less prone to squeaks. But, a new Corolla is a better car than the Civic.. IMHO.

imported_alwaysoverkill

hmmm. what do you mean by real VTEC for the D16Y8 as opposed to the new 1.7L SOHC (D17) my VTEC is crap, kicks in a 5200 and dosen't really do anything, thats why i rarely hit that rpm range. 3rd gear works good, but thats about it.

but handling is very important to me, my EL handles amazing with being lowered and the ZR tires. Thanks dropgear, very informative post...i think i'll just keep the EL for now and keep modding it. then just sell it all together when i can move on to something newer that i'd really like to have.

dropgear

SOHC VTEC (as in your D16Y8) is explained here:
http://www.leecao.com/honda/vtec/sohcvtec.html
2 sets of lobes, one agressive, one not, on the intake ports. Exhaust ports are always the same.

SOHC VTEC-E (as in the Civic Si/1.7EL) is explained here:
http://www.leecao.com/honda/vtec/sohcvtece.html
1 set of lobes on intake and exhaust. In low RPM mode, one of the intake ports is closed to save fuel. It opens up to normal in high-RPM operation.

That how you get 127hp out of two engines. One on 9 year old technology (d16y8) with 1.59L, and one with brand spanking new technology with 1.71L. Carb'ed D16's make 280whp in drag trim.. I don't think carb'ed D17's exist....

imported_alwaysoverkill

thanks everyone, i'm gonna keep the EL for now. i don't plan on really keeping any car long term in the near future (meaning more then like 4 years) so i might as well drive the EL since i've poured a good amount of money to make it right...then sell it when i can go to like a newer ride i want. The EL handles great and is basically a 99 civic Si so to move to a 01 or 02 sedan just dosen't seem like a big enough jump for the cost...although i love the look of some modded sedans i saw on 7thgencivics. but to pay $2-3k to move up 2 years, i'll just put that into my EL over the next two years for mods, etc.

imported_MMX

IMHO, I wouldn't call D17A2 a new technology either (except for increase in displacement).

VTEC-E (E for Economy or Efficiency) on D17A2 is based on D15Z1 (5th gen. USDM VX) and D16Y5 (6th gen. USDM HX).

imported_QUICKONTHEGAS

Sounds like some good logic