jztam

would like some advice on how to remedy a recently occurring noise. thanks.

1993 EG Si hatch. Just started two days ago, sounds like a bunch of marbles in a tin can when I disengage the clutch. There's been a faint sound for a year in neutral, but I dismissed it as heatshield noise. Now, in the last two days, any time I step on the clutch, I hear the rattling really loud.
a) stationary, in neutral, no feet on pedals: slight wheeze, but it's been that way for a year.
b) stationary, in neutral, clutch disengaged (pressed slighty, midway and all the way down): louder rattling, whining noise
c) rolling 5-50kph, in gear (1,2,3), foot off the clutch, very slight rattle.
d) rolling 5-50kph, in gear (1,2,3), clutch disengaged (slightly, midway or down to the floor): loud rattling.

History:
I thrash the heck out of this D16Z, every chance I get. I drive, in city traffice, for about ten minutes BEFORE I do anything strenous to the engine, tranny.
It is going at autoslalom levels about twice a month. Either my 15 year old son or I am thrashing it through the autox, for about 2 hours total during the day.

Searching the threads from 07 and 09 suggest it is the Throw out Bearing eh?

Prognosis?:
1) swap MT fluid for GM Synchro FM
2) lube the clutch slave to fork ball and socket underneath the rubbe L-shaped boot.
3) drop the transmission to replace bearings
4) buy another civic

D.T.P

Is there any difference in noise between clutch pedal out and just slightly in without any freeplay? Seems like input shaft bearing could be bad but it wouldnt make any noise when clutch pedal is in. So this leads me to believe its more than one bearing thats bad.
There are 3 main bearings that usually go. Pilot bearing, release bearing and input shaft bearing.
Pilot bearing will make noise when clutch is disingaged (pedal in)
release bearing makes noise when clutch pedal is down. But easy way to know whether its pilot bearing or this is, when pedal comes down just slightly down so it touches the pressure plate it will make noise while pilot bearing will make noise only when pedal is fully down.
Input shaft bearing will make noise whenever clutch pedal is up.

Fluid change wont do anything unless there is something broken inside the transmission. Can tell by fluid colour. If it looks silver, you got a problem.

Hope this helps.

MPR

Yeah you could have a combination of bad bearings. Especially the way you drive this car.

Throw-out bearing, pilot bearing and input shaft bearing are all suspect IMO.

I would drain the fluid to see what condition it's in as DTP said. Also I would pull the trans and inspect/replace the bad bearings.

jztam

Thanks M&M for the replies. I dove into the clutch slave area to see just how bad the damage was... sure enough, there is metal dust conflagrating around the release bearing/fork. Not gonna fix the release bearing, just gonna buy another car, is what my wallet is saying. But the ****** move of the day belongs to me... I ejected the pushrod from the slave cylinder.. ugh. Gonna bleed and bleed and bleed again... now where did my G1 teenager go to? ;-)

I'm guessing I'll need a new slave at the very least, since the push rod was covered in denatured rubber when I had a good look at it indoors. Shined it up and put it back into the slave cylinder... just asking if I need a new slave at this point... I'm guessing yes, and while I'm there at the store, get a new master cylinder as well. Though i did NOT see any leaks near the footwell/left pedal. Moisture, yes, leaks... No.

please advise. This car only needs to last long enough for me to buy a different Honda. ;-)

MPR

If the master and slave are not leaking, then you shouldn't need to replace them.

jztam

Bled, bled, bled... about 7 oz of DOT3.

The pushrod for the slave is NOT sliding back and forth Smoothly. Push rod appears to have been all Gummed Up with what looks like denatured rubber (instead of Shiny and clean) and meets resistance in the slave, when ENgaging again. What leads me to this supposition is the rubbery guck that i found on the push rod, when it "fell out" an hour ago. Ugh. It is relatively clean and shiny now, but I suspect the seal in the slave is deteriorated...When watching the pushrod's action from the engine, bay, with my co-mechanic operating the clutch pedal, I see the slave's pushrod NOT moving smoothly on the return stroke,from DisEngaged, towards Engaged. It is sluggish, at best. ugh. When I re-inserted the pushrod, there WAS some friction with the slave's Seal, and lateral/horizontal play... but I have no idea what a new pushrod would feel like. ;-<

? Possibly combination of pressure plate/friction/releaseBearing failure, accompanied with not-so-optimal slave operation. The fork is also VERY sloppy, ... I'm thinking NEW slave, and then re-bleed, bleed, bleed. Recalling my goal is to spend only my labour to make it last until I get a different Honda, and just live with the release bearing noise.
OR
park it/drop the transaxle/clutch/bearings/ junk it/ ice racer it, and/or buy another Honda.

jztam

Did the pushrod from the slave falling out of the slave, affect the bleeding process at all?

Is it okay if the slave's pushrod fell out and I re-inserted it?

Anyone else experience the black melted rubber gunk on the pushrod?
Thanks.

MPR

It's not that much work to replace the clutch and slave cylinder. Not that expensive either. If the rest of the car is in decent shape, why not just keep it on the road?

jztam

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I"m all for DIY, muck it up once, buy more tools ;-) cause I can't find/don't own/haven't MacGuyverred one, go back to the store on TTC to buy the fastener/tool I forgot to pre-organize, get online to ask for help, go back out and muck it up wiser, then finally get it correct. Wash up, test drive, oops and fix what I forgot, repeat.
Reading the howTo's for transmission removal now... to decide if it really is worth the effort for a first-time clutch installer like me.

kickz

iTrader: (1)

Hello sounds like you have a inputshaft bearing gone theres alot of labour involved
you should also replace the seal while the transmission apart.
you should look for a used good transmssion

jztam

@kickz So shopping for a used good transmission WITH a useable clutch AND a working set of gears... is that what you mean\? Or shopping for just one side of the transmission?

D.T.P

If its your first time dealing with this, i wouldnt take up a job of replacing the input shaft bearing. Might aswell buy a new transmission and call it quits. Dropping the transmission isnt that hard...just lining it up if the car is not on a hoist is where it gets tricky.

jztam

1. The transmission never grinded noticeably in any gear, before the clutch woes, so what is the troubleshooting procedure for diagnosing transmission issues?
2. I'm thinking my worries are only clutch related, but I wont know until I replace it... is that correct thinking?
3. I'm reading this DIY and need to ask a newbie question: Do I need to remove BOTH wheels/hubs/axles for the clutch replacement job? I'm thinking yes, got to remove both axles.