Rust rocket build thread.
22-Oct-2015, 11:01 PM
#1
Rust rocket build thread.
Saw curley's thread and thought since I'm in the process of a small build, and a kinda rare one, I'd post up a thread as well.
It's kinda a long story with a lot of sorta extra work and at least 4 cars involved in a car guys version of musical chairs.
Basically I have a 91 integra sedan, some might know it to see or from other posts here and other forums. It's my track duty car, but since the CRX' stock motor seized last year and life got in the way for a while, the teg's been pulling double duty. Between the two, they are very different cars, the handling in the teg feels like it's on rails, the CRX is actually more comfortable, suspension and just spacious interior for a guy 6'3, legroom matters. The only reason I have sufficient leg room in my sedan is cause I swapped in a sparco seat. I always loved how they felt like such different cars to drive being that they're only a few years different, front wheel drive Honda's but always wanted the little Si to have a motor like the one I enjoy so much in the teg.
Which brings me to the other cars involved. Once upon a time I had an 88 integra, very mint car bought from and old guy, 3 weeks later a monster truck ran it over while it was parked at a shop. Guy payed me for I bought the car for plus a few bucks and let me keep the car. I bought the 87 CRX Dx in my signature, and stripped the 88 teggy down. Then realized converting a carb'd car to EFI was gonna be a pain and put the idea on hold. a year later I moved back to Ontario and dragged all the teg stuff with me, only to sell the CRX when my first kid came along and I needed a van. 2 years later a CRX Si fell into my lap. I still have all the 88 teg parts (missing a few important parts tho) A DOHC swap would be nice even if it was still a D series.
This would be about a 30hp gain in a car that stock ran 15.6 in 87. But parts are scarce and I wanna build a reliable, fixable car in an old car body. I've driven many Honda's but the B series VTEC just has a certain character to it I love so much. I wanted a B16 for this car. I cared more about a high redline than actual power. Even the torqueless wonder it is would be more than enough for this little car. Digging around the forums I found a good priced clean looking one. Went to pick it up and ended up with not a B16, but a GSR block sporting an ITR head, with ITR internals up top and the ITR intake manifold. And I got it for the price I was quoted for the B16.
The one hiding in the background, that's the poor man's R. Under the hood of the DB1 in the foreground is my B20B, SiR head with ITR internals up top, SK2 intake and port matched to a 70mm TB, this car will have a build thread soon. Currently this motor puts down nearly 200hp. A close ratio'd b16 trans with a 4.4 final drive (Integra XSi) rare cable trans transmits power to the wheels. Next to the motor on the ground is a CTR trans. Those internals don't fit in the XSi trans. It's already got carbon syncros anyway, tho the LSD would be nice. This takes me to the next car...
Sorry crappy IG pic is all I have
This turbo teg, 92 GS coupe I bought just for the 92/93 having a big spline trans. That means the CTR internals will fit in this cable clutch housing. Dual carbon lined 2/3/4 and OEM LSD for the track car. The XSi trans will get fresh bearings and seals then find a new home in the CRX.
I don't yet know, keep the DB1 motor as is, or do I want more power for next season? That turbo is a cheap kit, but rebuild the turbo with good parts maybe? Car should be getting caged along with some other race mods soon anyway... The GSR/ITR would be the better motor for that I feel than the B20 with stock sleeves. The B18B bottom from the turbo teg is toast. Either way soon one of my B series VTEC motors is going into the CRX.
For now tho, some pics of the car
That was when I first brought it home. Last Sunday I finally got it into the new shop and started putting in some work on it. I needed the motor out anyway, but want the harness off it so I can make a hybrid 87Si/88 teg/92 teg motor harness and add VTEC etc to that for when the new motor is finally ready to go in.
Pulled a little more more out, notice the struts... I do my swaps a little different than most I guess, I like to drop everything out all together.
Also make sure to pull the calipers off the knuckles or they'll break/hang you up.
Monster truck tires make good stands.
After 2 hrs and making sure everything top and bottom was disconnected.
Had to laugh when I looked into the TB, not like 88+ Honda's at all.
This is maybe 35mm?
On Tuesday this part of the puzzle showed up, 85 CRX HF cluster needed for the VSS mounted on the back side for converting to OBD1 or really to run and B series.
I ripped the motor out of the turbo teg today but was rushing hard to get that done in the last hour of the day at work today. So I'll take a pic of the car/motor out tomorrow. I'll be sure to get more pics and details when doing the install side of things. Less back story too...
It's kinda a long story with a lot of sorta extra work and at least 4 cars involved in a car guys version of musical chairs.
Basically I have a 91 integra sedan, some might know it to see or from other posts here and other forums. It's my track duty car, but since the CRX' stock motor seized last year and life got in the way for a while, the teg's been pulling double duty. Between the two, they are very different cars, the handling in the teg feels like it's on rails, the CRX is actually more comfortable, suspension and just spacious interior for a guy 6'3, legroom matters. The only reason I have sufficient leg room in my sedan is cause I swapped in a sparco seat. I always loved how they felt like such different cars to drive being that they're only a few years different, front wheel drive Honda's but always wanted the little Si to have a motor like the one I enjoy so much in the teg.
Which brings me to the other cars involved. Once upon a time I had an 88 integra, very mint car bought from and old guy, 3 weeks later a monster truck ran it over while it was parked at a shop. Guy payed me for I bought the car for plus a few bucks and let me keep the car. I bought the 87 CRX Dx in my signature, and stripped the 88 teggy down. Then realized converting a carb'd car to EFI was gonna be a pain and put the idea on hold. a year later I moved back to Ontario and dragged all the teg stuff with me, only to sell the CRX when my first kid came along and I needed a van. 2 years later a CRX Si fell into my lap. I still have all the 88 teg parts (missing a few important parts tho) A DOHC swap would be nice even if it was still a D series.
This would be about a 30hp gain in a car that stock ran 15.6 in 87. But parts are scarce and I wanna build a reliable, fixable car in an old car body. I've driven many Honda's but the B series VTEC just has a certain character to it I love so much. I wanted a B16 for this car. I cared more about a high redline than actual power. Even the torqueless wonder it is would be more than enough for this little car. Digging around the forums I found a good priced clean looking one. Went to pick it up and ended up with not a B16, but a GSR block sporting an ITR head, with ITR internals up top and the ITR intake manifold. And I got it for the price I was quoted for the B16.
The one hiding in the background, that's the poor man's R. Under the hood of the DB1 in the foreground is my B20B, SiR head with ITR internals up top, SK2 intake and port matched to a 70mm TB, this car will have a build thread soon. Currently this motor puts down nearly 200hp. A close ratio'd b16 trans with a 4.4 final drive (Integra XSi) rare cable trans transmits power to the wheels. Next to the motor on the ground is a CTR trans. Those internals don't fit in the XSi trans. It's already got carbon syncros anyway, tho the LSD would be nice. This takes me to the next car...
Sorry crappy IG pic is all I have
This turbo teg, 92 GS coupe I bought just for the 92/93 having a big spline trans. That means the CTR internals will fit in this cable clutch housing. Dual carbon lined 2/3/4 and OEM LSD for the track car. The XSi trans will get fresh bearings and seals then find a new home in the CRX.
I don't yet know, keep the DB1 motor as is, or do I want more power for next season? That turbo is a cheap kit, but rebuild the turbo with good parts maybe? Car should be getting caged along with some other race mods soon anyway... The GSR/ITR would be the better motor for that I feel than the B20 with stock sleeves. The B18B bottom from the turbo teg is toast. Either way soon one of my B series VTEC motors is going into the CRX.
For now tho, some pics of the car
That was when I first brought it home. Last Sunday I finally got it into the new shop and started putting in some work on it. I needed the motor out anyway, but want the harness off it so I can make a hybrid 87Si/88 teg/92 teg motor harness and add VTEC etc to that for when the new motor is finally ready to go in.
Pulled a little more more out, notice the struts... I do my swaps a little different than most I guess, I like to drop everything out all together.
Also make sure to pull the calipers off the knuckles or they'll break/hang you up.
Monster truck tires make good stands.
After 2 hrs and making sure everything top and bottom was disconnected.
Had to laugh when I looked into the TB, not like 88+ Honda's at all.
This is maybe 35mm?
On Tuesday this part of the puzzle showed up, 85 CRX HF cluster needed for the VSS mounted on the back side for converting to OBD1 or really to run and B series.
I ripped the motor out of the turbo teg today but was rushing hard to get that done in the last hour of the day at work today. So I'll take a pic of the car/motor out tomorrow. I'll be sure to get more pics and details when doing the install side of things. Less back story too...
25-Oct-2015, 01:26 PM
#4
Little update, not actual work on the CRX, but the turbo teg sorta, which is stuff I need to do as part of getting this car done.
Swap out of the teg, car gone to scrap.
Some of the turbo parts from it. eBay kit, if I use it, turbo will be rebuilt/balanced and the waste gate replaced with something better. I might have a better FMIC for it as well.
and curley I'll be down to chase you around a track next season, but it'll be in My Integra, the CRX is strictly for the street. Maybe some passes down the 1320 for tuning.
Swap out of the teg, car gone to scrap.
Some of the turbo parts from it. eBay kit, if I use it, turbo will be rebuilt/balanced and the waste gate replaced with something better. I might have a better FMIC for it as well.
and curley I'll be down to chase you around a track next season, but it'll be in My Integra, the CRX is strictly for the street. Maybe some passes down the 1320 for tuning.
Last edited by ol Dusty; 05-Dec-2015 at 10:01 PM.
22-Dec-2015, 10:54 PM
#5
2 part update,
recently done work that I forgot to post: Making a cable trans with hydro internals. I have the CTR trans and 93 LS trans open for inspection, looks ok, but really I won't know for sure till I drive it.
Notice above the CTR trans like an ITR or GSR of certain years have a tapered bearing on the diff. I decided to stay that way for now, after I drive this trans for a bit I'll probably drop it to rebuild and change all the bearings but wanna know what if any other problems the trans might have before I spend $$$ on it.
The casing needs to be clearanced for the LSD, the oil fins inside are in the way so paint markered and shaved as needed, this is a progress shot, I did clean it up a lot more than this.
Thought I had a pic of the trans together, but you get the idea.
Today: Got to put some work in, started prepping the new motor and after a little struggle I remembered to take some photos. Maybe shoulda go some of me cutting the damn rounded flywheel bolts off, this might have been why I got the motor for what I payed tho. Flywheel was hot spotted to **** and I already planned to replace it so off with their heads.
The flywheel after
The engine finally on a stand and not a tire after a few months
Sorry didn't realize the pic was so blurry, but cleaned up a lot of grease and crud off the thing and the new T belt installed.
And finally teaser shot, tho the turbo won't be on this manifold due to clearance in the tight little engine bay, if at all it will be on the log style manifold shown above.
My shops closed for a week starting thursday so we have no work really booked in tomorrow so I'll get more done on this plus I'm going to come in for a day or two while we're closed to put more time in. Bunch of new parts came in recently also, just need a dizzy and other little things, then the time to start putting it all together and also build my custom exhaust I'll need for this.
recently done work that I forgot to post: Making a cable trans with hydro internals. I have the CTR trans and 93 LS trans open for inspection, looks ok, but really I won't know for sure till I drive it.
Notice above the CTR trans like an ITR or GSR of certain years have a tapered bearing on the diff. I decided to stay that way for now, after I drive this trans for a bit I'll probably drop it to rebuild and change all the bearings but wanna know what if any other problems the trans might have before I spend $$$ on it.
The casing needs to be clearanced for the LSD, the oil fins inside are in the way so paint markered and shaved as needed, this is a progress shot, I did clean it up a lot more than this.
Thought I had a pic of the trans together, but you get the idea.
Today: Got to put some work in, started prepping the new motor and after a little struggle I remembered to take some photos. Maybe shoulda go some of me cutting the damn rounded flywheel bolts off, this might have been why I got the motor for what I payed tho. Flywheel was hot spotted to **** and I already planned to replace it so off with their heads.
The flywheel after
The engine finally on a stand and not a tire after a few months
Sorry didn't realize the pic was so blurry, but cleaned up a lot of grease and crud off the thing and the new T belt installed.
And finally teaser shot, tho the turbo won't be on this manifold due to clearance in the tight little engine bay, if at all it will be on the log style manifold shown above.
My shops closed for a week starting thursday so we have no work really booked in tomorrow so I'll get more done on this plus I'm going to come in for a day or two while we're closed to put more time in. Bunch of new parts came in recently also, just need a dizzy and other little things, then the time to start putting it all together and also build my custom exhaust I'll need for this.
24-Dec-2015, 05:02 PM
#7
Thanks Sha!
Little more progress, hoping to get one full day of solid focused work in on the shell over the next week.
soaked in degreaser, getting the trans ready to bolt on.
Some of the new goodies, including the flywheel to replace that destroyed one I had to cut off
For the flywheel I didn't go too light, this is a little more than 10lbs. with plenty of lighter versions available, I didn't want to throw the balance of the crank and balancer off too much, plus with the hopes of boosting this motor a little weight will help keep it in boost between shifts.
Covered in brake cleaner to get rid of any contaminants on the mating surface, also I used fresh ARP bolts with assembly lube and loctite then torqued to specs provided by ARP.
Using the supplied alignment dowel, the stage 1 Exedy. I recommend a full face clutch for anything other than a drag car, even for circuit I've been using a OEM spec Exedy (So what would have been factory) on my DB1 with no issues. There really is no need for stage 2 or higher unless you have a serious power built motor yet so often I hear of guys with basic bolt ons and then a crazy clutch. You're really just wearing it out faster and destroying your flywheel as well as making the car less comfortable for regular driving all for nothing. This stage 1 is barely more pedal effort than stock, but is good for almost 300 ft/lbs of tq.
Pressure plate installed and ready for the trans.
Then finally the two are mated together for the install.
Depending on the chassis and the tools available having the two together now might not make sense. For me I will drop the lower subframe and steering rack as well as suspension up front all together and then lower the car onto the complete swap, bolt on the upper mounts then re-install the cradle before starting on the linkage and exhaust work. In this case after the motors hanging then I can look at clearance for the turbo and decide what needs to be cut etc and if it seems worth it to me. But even if I don't I think this motor/trans combo will be more than enough for this car.
Little more progress, hoping to get one full day of solid focused work in on the shell over the next week.
soaked in degreaser, getting the trans ready to bolt on.
Some of the new goodies, including the flywheel to replace that destroyed one I had to cut off
For the flywheel I didn't go too light, this is a little more than 10lbs. with plenty of lighter versions available, I didn't want to throw the balance of the crank and balancer off too much, plus with the hopes of boosting this motor a little weight will help keep it in boost between shifts.
Covered in brake cleaner to get rid of any contaminants on the mating surface, also I used fresh ARP bolts with assembly lube and loctite then torqued to specs provided by ARP.
Using the supplied alignment dowel, the stage 1 Exedy. I recommend a full face clutch for anything other than a drag car, even for circuit I've been using a OEM spec Exedy (So what would have been factory) on my DB1 with no issues. There really is no need for stage 2 or higher unless you have a serious power built motor yet so often I hear of guys with basic bolt ons and then a crazy clutch. You're really just wearing it out faster and destroying your flywheel as well as making the car less comfortable for regular driving all for nothing. This stage 1 is barely more pedal effort than stock, but is good for almost 300 ft/lbs of tq.
Pressure plate installed and ready for the trans.
Then finally the two are mated together for the install.
Depending on the chassis and the tools available having the two together now might not make sense. For me I will drop the lower subframe and steering rack as well as suspension up front all together and then lower the car onto the complete swap, bolt on the upper mounts then re-install the cradle before starting on the linkage and exhaust work. In this case after the motors hanging then I can look at clearance for the turbo and decide what needs to be cut etc and if it seems worth it to me. But even if I don't I think this motor/trans combo will be more than enough for this car.
30-Dec-2015, 11:07 PM
#8
I didn't get done anywhere near as much as I'd hoped with my one free day of working on my car at work, took a little more karate than I expected. Still got a good amount done today, spent 9hrs on it removing crap I don't need anymore, like a garbage aftermarket cruise control system and while there's still a ton left like all the wiring, plumbing of various fluids and pipes along with a few little things and a tune I'm getting there, slowly but surely, hopefully by spring at this rate tho.
The cruise control unit. This thing had wires and some other parts hooked up in a few different places. Removing the wires without leaving anything that might cause issues later was a tedious job that took quite a while.
The super fashionable duct tape I used to hold the header panel down after it tried to fly off on the highway one night, and the nose mask that is now basically structural, I wanted to take the header panel and front bumper off, but I don't think I can now till I have a replacement panel, so maybe never.
Removed the battery tray and rear crossmember mounts for the new hasport parts to go in
Hasport instructions say to use the 4 bolts supplied and one of the lower tq mount bolts previously removed in the large hole to install the pass side bracket, but there were only 3 small holes, the 4th was not drilled out.
Installed, I later found that maybe that last hole wasn't drilled on purpose and they haven't updated the printed instructions, the head of the bolt interferes with the trans mount that bolts to this bracket. Quick search and I found some solutions, I chose to shave the head down on this bolt cause it was in already
Rear trans bracket installed, tho I ended up removing the bolts, and dropping the trans side down so I could get the rear T bracket from a 99-00 EM1 into place
Trans mount, and this will be the only time you really see the nice logo, cause I am likely keeping the battery in the stock location. I don't want to move it to the trunk, trying to stay sleeper after all
They put their name here as well and this is a very unlikely to be seen area, it's under the driver side mount, and kinda under the header area...
And then with all the fighting and twisting, lunch and so on I kinda got focused and left the phone on the charger instead of taking these high quality Iphone 4 photos and I have a motor trans hanging in my 1G!
And for the keen eye, yes it's hard to get my car on a hoist meant for trucks. But not as bad as my DB1, that car needs jacks to get on any hoist.
The cruise control unit. This thing had wires and some other parts hooked up in a few different places. Removing the wires without leaving anything that might cause issues later was a tedious job that took quite a while.
The super fashionable duct tape I used to hold the header panel down after it tried to fly off on the highway one night, and the nose mask that is now basically structural, I wanted to take the header panel and front bumper off, but I don't think I can now till I have a replacement panel, so maybe never.
Removed the battery tray and rear crossmember mounts for the new hasport parts to go in
Hasport instructions say to use the 4 bolts supplied and one of the lower tq mount bolts previously removed in the large hole to install the pass side bracket, but there were only 3 small holes, the 4th was not drilled out.
Installed, I later found that maybe that last hole wasn't drilled on purpose and they haven't updated the printed instructions, the head of the bolt interferes with the trans mount that bolts to this bracket. Quick search and I found some solutions, I chose to shave the head down on this bolt cause it was in already
Rear trans bracket installed, tho I ended up removing the bolts, and dropping the trans side down so I could get the rear T bracket from a 99-00 EM1 into place
Trans mount, and this will be the only time you really see the nice logo, cause I am likely keeping the battery in the stock location. I don't want to move it to the trunk, trying to stay sleeper after all
They put their name here as well and this is a very unlikely to be seen area, it's under the driver side mount, and kinda under the header area...
And then with all the fighting and twisting, lunch and so on I kinda got focused and left the phone on the charger instead of taking these high quality Iphone 4 photos and I have a motor trans hanging in my 1G!
And for the keen eye, yes it's hard to get my car on a hoist meant for trucks. But not as bad as my DB1, that car needs jacks to get on any hoist.
