turbo sohc or dohc?
05-Jul-2010, 11:33 AM
#21
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^I said it would cost 3 times as much to build a 200whp NA (non-turbo) b-series as it would to build a 200whp turbo d-series.
It will still cost less to boost a d-motor to 200whp then it would to boost a b-series vtec to 200whp, because the OP must first buy the b-series vtec motor which already will cost more than twice what a d-series motor costs. The only exceptions being the b18 non vtec LS, and b20 non-vtec motors. But both those engines, like the d-series, would require ARP rod bolts/head studs to achieve 200whp safely.
IF you already have a d-series and you want 200whp, just buy another d-motor, rebuild it with the proper/necessary components and swap it in with a new upgraded clutch and you're laughin.
It will still cost less to boost a d-motor to 200whp then it would to boost a b-series vtec to 200whp, because the OP must first buy the b-series vtec motor which already will cost more than twice what a d-series motor costs. The only exceptions being the b18 non vtec LS, and b20 non-vtec motors. But both those engines, like the d-series, would require ARP rod bolts/head studs to achieve 200whp safely.
IF you already have a d-series and you want 200whp, just buy another d-motor, rebuild it with the proper/necessary components and swap it in with a new upgraded clutch and you're laughin.
i get ya i get ya
thx bud
05-Jul-2010, 11:37 AM
#22
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It costs a lot more than most people think to build even a 200whp NA b-series motor. Just price out a set of stage 2 cams, upgraded valve train, high compression pistons, adjustable cam gears....and then price out at a reputable machine shop to have the head shaved, port & polished to increase volumetric efficiency, the entire rotating assembly must also be balanced to allow safe operation at higher rpm's...the list goes on...
All of that is very expensive and none of that is necessary to run boost which will easily get you past 200whp on stock internals on any b-series.
All of that is very expensive and none of that is necessary to run boost which will easily get you past 200whp on stock internals on any b-series.
05-Jul-2010, 11:56 AM
#25
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I wouldn't boost a high mileage motor, but a turbo is the most effecient, reliable, cost-effective way to gain power, provided the right components are used, installed correctly and it is tuned/maintained properly.
05-Jul-2010, 12:04 PM
#26
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They are money pits...lol. And once you've driven a car with boost, it's all over!
I wouldn't boost a high mileage motor, but a turbo is the most effecient, reliable, cost-effective way to gain power, provided the right components are used, installed correctly and it is tuned/maintained properly.
I wouldn't boost a high mileage motor, but a turbo is the most effecient, reliable, cost-effective way to gain power, provided the right components are used, installed correctly and it is tuned/maintained properly.
my d series has too high kms to boost
and i have a good deal on a b series
thats why i was leaning more towards the b series than getting another d series
ahh decisions decisions lol
05-Jul-2010, 12:12 PM
#27
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This is partly what make civics so cool. An empty engine bay yields SO many options. lol. It can be very difficult to decide...
We can guide and suggest to you the most cost effective and most popular directions to go to reach your goals, but it's ultimately up to you.
We can guide and suggest to you the most cost effective and most popular directions to go to reach your goals, but it's ultimately up to you.
05-Jul-2010, 08:11 PM
#28
I'd rather the B.
Unless you're buying a junk yard turbo, or an ebay special turbo, I would put the cost at about even. Maybe we should price it out? Not for arguement sake, but because it's not a terrible idea. Might be a good sticky. Basic Swap, Basic Turbo Setup Prices.
Unless you're buying a junk yard turbo, or an ebay special turbo, I would put the cost at about even. Maybe we should price it out? Not for arguement sake, but because it's not a terrible idea. Might be a good sticky. Basic Swap, Basic Turbo Setup Prices.
06-Jul-2010, 12:45 AM
#29
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my goals for this build is to make a reliable car that will be driven daily, but still have potential for tracking days etc... surely i'll decide to go over 200whp at one point, but i dont think its a bad start for now. i'll want a reasonable turbo that reaches full boost at ~3500 rpm so that i can enjoy it on the street and not just on the highway. given this, and from what rick + mrp have said, i think the best decision would be to swap another z6 and boost it. with the money that it would cost to swap a B series, i could already piece together a decent turbo kit and be on my way to tuning it.
i know boosting a high km engine is risky even if compression/leakdown tests turn out good, so i wont really consider keeping my engine.
a typeR swap is a little too overkill for where i'm trying to get, and NA builds are very expensive. i would rather work with turning up the boost if i want more power and worrying about some internals than boring out the block, etc on the B series.
i've heard that going 200whp+ on stock internals in a d series gets a little sketchy. will i have to get new rods/pistons on the D series if i wanna reach this kind of power?
i know boosting a high km engine is risky even if compression/leakdown tests turn out good, so i wont really consider keeping my engine.
a typeR swap is a little too overkill for where i'm trying to get, and NA builds are very expensive. i would rather work with turning up the boost if i want more power and worrying about some internals than boring out the block, etc on the B series.
i've heard that going 200whp+ on stock internals in a d series gets a little sketchy. will i have to get new rods/pistons on the D series if i wanna reach this kind of power?
06-Jul-2010, 12:59 AM
#30
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mississauga
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my goals for this build is to make a reliable car that will be driven daily, but still have potential for tracking days etc... surely i'll decide to go over 200whp at one point, but i dont think its a bad start for now. i'll want a reasonable turbo that reaches full boost at ~3500 rpm so that i can enjoy it on the street and not just on the highway. given this, and from what rick + mrp have said, i think the best decision would be to swap another z6 and boost it. with the money that it would cost to swap a B series, i could already piece together a decent turbo kit and be on my way to tuning it.
i know boosting a high km engine is risky even if compression/leakdown tests turn out good, so i wont really consider keeping my engine.
a typeR swap is a little too overkill for where i'm trying to get, and NA builds are very expensive. i would rather work with turning up the boost if i want more power and worrying about some internals than boring out the block, etc on the B series.
i've heard that going 200whp+ on stock internals in a d series gets a little sketchy. will i have to get new rods/pistons on the D series if i wanna reach this kind of power?
i know boosting a high km engine is risky even if compression/leakdown tests turn out good, so i wont really consider keeping my engine.
a typeR swap is a little too overkill for where i'm trying to get, and NA builds are very expensive. i would rather work with turning up the boost if i want more power and worrying about some internals than boring out the block, etc on the B series.
i've heard that going 200whp+ on stock internals in a d series gets a little sketchy. will i have to get new rods/pistons on the D series if i wanna reach this kind of power?
While you enjoy the turbo in your new engine , you can buy another d series engine (cheap) with less mileage and put new pistons and rods ... Once your current engine dies ( or you want more power) you can swap the new built engine in and go big ( 220 + whp)
It all depends on how much power you want , I ve read of people making 300 - 400 whp on d series .. But I personally dont think you need more than 220-250 at the wheels in a little civic .... Once you start putting too much power in your car you need to make other changes ( brakes , suspension , etc , etc )...
It seems you just want to have a daily car with decent power
Now i may be wrong here , but I dont think you can find a turbo kit that reaches full boost at 3500 , if so it will be a small turbo (very small) , therefore it will make less power .. ( i may be wrong though)
06-Jul-2010, 04:53 AM
#31
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: near toronto
Posts: 188
after i just read this whole thread an im half sober an i should get to bed toon.
there are alot of honda smart ppl here!
i have the same issues, i have a D, D are guttless man onway to burn rubber is dumping the clutch at 3k LOL
OP i was thinking the same thing, i was a turbo, i was my dd to smoke ppls weekend stangs n ****, dnt waste ur money on your D get a decent sickass B intake header exaust, and youl love it soooo much its pull way harder then ur D series motor. then once you get a bit bored of your lightly moded B, rebuild with internals, like rick n mrp said, then if yuou want power. BOOST FTW
anywyas thats my plan atleast suit yourself tho, im going to bed PEACE
there are alot of honda smart ppl here!
i have the same issues, i have a D, D are guttless man onway to burn rubber is dumping the clutch at 3k LOL
OP i was thinking the same thing, i was a turbo, i was my dd to smoke ppls weekend stangs n ****, dnt waste ur money on your D get a decent sickass B intake header exaust, and youl love it soooo much its pull way harder then ur D series motor. then once you get a bit bored of your lightly moded B, rebuild with internals, like rick n mrp said, then if yuou want power. BOOST FTW
anywyas thats my plan atleast suit yourself tho, im going to bed PEACE
06-Jul-2010, 09:18 AM
#34
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Where my car is.
Posts: 5,460
after i just read this whole thread an im half sober an i should get to bed toon.
there are alot of honda smart ppl here!
i have the same issues, i have a D, D are guttless man onway to burn rubber is dumping the clutch at 3k LOL
OP i was thinking the same thing, i was a turbo, i was my dd to smoke ppls weekend stangs n ****, dnt waste ur money on your D get a decent sickass B intake header exaust, and youl love it soooo much its pull way harder then ur D series motor. then once you get a bit bored of your lightly moded B, rebuild with internals, like rick n mrp said, then if yuou want power. BOOST FTW
anywyas thats my plan atleast suit yourself tho, im going to bed PEACE
there are alot of honda smart ppl here!
i have the same issues, i have a D, D are guttless man onway to burn rubber is dumping the clutch at 3k LOL
OP i was thinking the same thing, i was a turbo, i was my dd to smoke ppls weekend stangs n ****, dnt waste ur money on your D get a decent sickass B intake header exaust, and youl love it soooo much its pull way harder then ur D series motor. then once you get a bit bored of your lightly moded B, rebuild with internals, like rick n mrp said, then if yuou want power. BOOST FTW
anywyas thats my plan atleast suit yourself tho, im going to bed PEACE
.....yeah.....
06-Jul-2010, 09:49 AM
#35
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Lol i was so tempted to respond yesterday, but was too drunk...luckily i didnt, or it would have been worse than chino lol.
But either way, OP stick with D series. build it if you want more power. having a small sohc making a lot more power than all B series is something to brag about
But either way, OP stick with D series. build it if you want more power. having a small sohc making a lot more power than all B series is something to brag about
06-Jul-2010, 10:08 AM
#36
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Couple things to note (in red):
Since this is your first time with a turbo , I would suggest just turbo your d series , start low and see how you like it ... Personally if you decide to turbo your current engine, I wouldnt go over 200 whp ( 5- 6psi tops)..
-You generally don't choose the amount of boost or psi you want to run. You chose how much power you want to make. Depending on the turbo you are using and how well it is tuned will determine how much boost is required for the engine to make that power. It may only make 160whp at 6psi. It may make 210whp at 6psi...it all depends and every build/setup is different.
While you enjoy the turbo in your new engine , you can buy another d series engine (cheap) with less mileage and put new pistons and rods ... Once your current engine dies ( or you want more power) you can swap the new built engine in and go big ( 220 + whp)
It all depends on how much power you want , I ve read of people making 300 - 400 whp on d series .. But I personally dont think you need more than 220-250 at the wheels in a little civic .... Once you start putting too much power in your car you need to make other changes ( brakes , suspension , etc , etc )...
It seems you just want to have a daily car with decent power
Now i may be wrong here , but I dont think you can find a turbo kit that reaches full boost at 3500 , if so it will be a small turbo (very small) , therefore it will make less power .. ( i may be wrong though)
-This is why properly sizing the turbo is VERY important. You need to look at the compressor maps and using a few simple math formulas you can map out how much boost a given turbo will give you throughout the rpm range. If the turbo is too small it will not be able to keep up with the volume flow required at high rpm. And if it's too big, it will not spool until higher in the rpm range and be useless in the lower-mid rpm range. A properly sized turbo will be able to give you the boost required to meet your power goal within the rpm range you want. It's very possible to have a turbo that spools at 3500rpm and holds strong all the way to the limiter as long as you do your research and choose the right turbo.
For example: Our race MR2 we just finished swapping out the big turbo for a smaller one. We are now using a stock turbo from a WRX. Looking at the compressor maps, for our little 1.6L, it can give us 25psi at 3000rpm and hold that all the way to 7500rpm without falling off or dropping power. And that holds true. We were testing and tuning it on friday after the swap, it really does hit hard, and by 3200rpm we're at full boost (currently 16psi)!
With the bigger turbo, we wouldn't see any boost until 4-4500rpm+.
-You generally don't choose the amount of boost or psi you want to run. You chose how much power you want to make. Depending on the turbo you are using and how well it is tuned will determine how much boost is required for the engine to make that power. It may only make 160whp at 6psi. It may make 210whp at 6psi...it all depends and every build/setup is different.
While you enjoy the turbo in your new engine , you can buy another d series engine (cheap) with less mileage and put new pistons and rods ... Once your current engine dies ( or you want more power) you can swap the new built engine in and go big ( 220 + whp)
It all depends on how much power you want , I ve read of people making 300 - 400 whp on d series .. But I personally dont think you need more than 220-250 at the wheels in a little civic .... Once you start putting too much power in your car you need to make other changes ( brakes , suspension , etc , etc )...
It seems you just want to have a daily car with decent power
Now i may be wrong here , but I dont think you can find a turbo kit that reaches full boost at 3500 , if so it will be a small turbo (very small) , therefore it will make less power .. ( i may be wrong though)
-This is why properly sizing the turbo is VERY important. You need to look at the compressor maps and using a few simple math formulas you can map out how much boost a given turbo will give you throughout the rpm range. If the turbo is too small it will not be able to keep up with the volume flow required at high rpm. And if it's too big, it will not spool until higher in the rpm range and be useless in the lower-mid rpm range. A properly sized turbo will be able to give you the boost required to meet your power goal within the rpm range you want. It's very possible to have a turbo that spools at 3500rpm and holds strong all the way to the limiter as long as you do your research and choose the right turbo.
For example: Our race MR2 we just finished swapping out the big turbo for a smaller one. We are now using a stock turbo from a WRX. Looking at the compressor maps, for our little 1.6L, it can give us 25psi at 3000rpm and hold that all the way to 7500rpm without falling off or dropping power. And that holds true. We were testing and tuning it on friday after the swap, it really does hit hard, and by 3200rpm we're at full boost (currently 16psi)!
With the bigger turbo, we wouldn't see any boost until 4-4500rpm+.
06-Jul-2010, 10:28 AM
#38
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One other thing to note is that we don't have a power goal for the MR2. Therefore we are choosing the amount of boost we want to run, thus, it's making what ever power it makes according to how well we tune it. But basically, the more boost we run, the more power we make. Our power is currently unknown (est. around 250whp+ at the moment). But it's a pure race car, built for the track, not for the street. Reliability is not so much an issue. We're going to continue to increase the boost until the motor blows, basically. lol. The cause of failure will not be due to the amount of boost we were running but due to the power it was making.
Last edited by MPR; 06-Jul-2010 at 12:09 PM.
06-Jul-2010, 12:16 PM
#39
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 31
and by k-swap I mean sell your civic, and use the money you would spend on boost or b-swap and buy an rsx type-s. The added benefit of this is you also get a 5-bolt swap, rear disc conversion, leather interior, sunroof (if you don't have one), a rear sway bar and a car that (IMO) looks much better.
If you're looking to do it on a budget, 5th gen ludes are hugely affordable nowadays, and the H22 vtec crossover will make you **** a brick (and most of what I said above still holds)...
No matter what anyone says, if you have to pay someone to do the work for you, boosting or swapping will NOT be the most effective way to make power.
If you're looking to do it on a budget, 5th gen ludes are hugely affordable nowadays, and the H22 vtec crossover will make you **** a brick (and most of what I said above still holds)...
No matter what anyone says, if you have to pay someone to do the work for you, boosting or swapping will NOT be the most effective way to make power.
06-Jul-2010, 12:31 PM
#40
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^A 200whp d-series in an eg hatch will be quicker then a stock RSX Type-S and cost A LOT less. Even after paying somone to do the work.
RSX is 500lbs + heavier then a hatch. 5 bolt rims will cost more (4x100 ftw! lol). Leather sucks in the extreme hot and cold...lol.
Not trying to bash the RSX, they are nice. I just prefer the old school, lower cost, lighter weight and simplistic layout of the older civics.
I think if the OP wanted a new car, he'd have posted up he wanted a new car...lol.
RSX is 500lbs + heavier then a hatch. 5 bolt rims will cost more (4x100 ftw! lol). Leather sucks in the extreme hot and cold...lol.
Not trying to bash the RSX, they are nice. I just prefer the old school, lower cost, lighter weight and simplistic layout of the older civics.
I think if the OP wanted a new car, he'd have posted up he wanted a new car...lol.
