D16 z6/y8 for boost which is better?
02-Oct-2011, 04:07 PM
#1
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 19
D16 z6/y8 for boost which is better?
Im helping my cuz do research for a winter build looking to do a D-series boost build but need to find out which one is best first.
First off let me start by saying it will be a complete build with a topmount manifold and a Gt3076r, would love to see 300whp+ out of it.
Which motor is better and why?
Once i agree to which one i will get i will be in the market for one.
Also heard that the y8 has a oil pump problem, what can be done to fix this?
First off let me start by saying it will be a complete build with a topmount manifold and a Gt3076r, would love to see 300whp+ out of it.
Which motor is better and why?
Once i agree to which one i will get i will be in the market for one.
Also heard that the y8 has a oil pump problem, what can be done to fix this?
Last edited by sleepek24; 02-Oct-2011 at 04:08 PM.
02-Oct-2011, 09:17 PM
#2
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Where my car is.
Posts: 5,460
If you're building it to 300whp+ then you're going to be replacing all the weak internal components anyways. At that point it makes no difference. They are both sohc vtec 1.6L engines. Never heard of the oil pump issue...
03-Oct-2011, 08:14 PM
#4
I have heard of the oil pump issue on the Y8. I've also notice they were more prone to bearing failure in the bottom end, but that would be taken care of if you're building.
ONE difference to consider though is that the Z6 has 3 spots that stick out cast into the block on the back that seem to have no purpose, these sometimes have holes bored into them and if not the hole can be drilled and then taped, allowing the driver side CV shaft to be swapped with the shaft/half shaft setup from a DOHC ZC or 86-89 integra's D16A1. This helps to reduce a bit of the torque steer you'll get with a 300+ hp motor.
ONE difference to consider though is that the Z6 has 3 spots that stick out cast into the block on the back that seem to have no purpose, these sometimes have holes bored into them and if not the hole can be drilled and then taped, allowing the driver side CV shaft to be swapped with the shaft/half shaft setup from a DOHC ZC or 86-89 integra's D16A1. This helps to reduce a bit of the torque steer you'll get with a 300+ hp motor.
03-Oct-2011, 08:23 PM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 19
I have a list on the parts i will need, this is what i have so far, can someone add or remove parts to it i want a proper build.
Cometic head gasket
ACL race bearings
ARP head studs
Supertech block guard
Racing kevlar timing belt
Cp pistons Eagle rod combo- 9.0:1 - .020 - 75.5
Darton sleeves- Is this needed?
Bisimoto 3.6 cam
Bisimoto cam gear- or another brand?
Supertech valvesprings and Ti retainers
Skunk2 pro series valves
Supertech bronze valve guides
Supertech valve seals
Skunk2 pro series intake manifold
Skunk2 pro series tb 70mm
Hondata s300
Cometic head gasket
ACL race bearings
ARP head studs
Supertech block guard
Racing kevlar timing belt
Cp pistons Eagle rod combo- 9.0:1 - .020 - 75.5
Darton sleeves- Is this needed?
Bisimoto 3.6 cam
Bisimoto cam gear- or another brand?
Supertech valvesprings and Ti retainers
Skunk2 pro series valves
Supertech bronze valve guides
Supertech valve seals
Skunk2 pro series intake manifold
Skunk2 pro series tb 70mm
Hondata s300
05-Oct-2011, 10:02 AM
#6
Inactive
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Where my car is.
Posts: 5,460
You don't need the block guard. Not unless you're going for huge power (pure race engine 400hp+).
Make sure the cam is one designed for turbo and not an NA cam.
Everything else looks good. Sleeves are not completely necessary, but a good thing to have if you ever want to make more power.
There are less expensive and just as capable engine management tuning systems available other than the hondata s300. I am a big promoter of Megasquirt, especially if you are a DIY'r.
Make sure the cam is one designed for turbo and not an NA cam.
Everything else looks good. Sleeves are not completely necessary, but a good thing to have if you ever want to make more power.
There are less expensive and just as capable engine management tuning systems available other than the hondata s300. I am a big promoter of Megasquirt, especially if you are a DIY'r.
05-Oct-2011, 11:19 AM
#8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 19
You don't need the block guard. Not unless you're going for huge power (pure race engine 400hp+).
Make sure the cam is one designed for turbo and not an NA cam.
Everything else looks good. Sleeves are not completely necessary, but a good thing to have if you ever want to make more power.
There are less expensive and just as capable engine management tuning systems available other than the hondata s300. I am a big promoter of Megasquirt, especially if you are a DIY'r.
Make sure the cam is one designed for turbo and not an NA cam.
Everything else looks good. Sleeves are not completely necessary, but a good thing to have if you ever want to make more power.
There are less expensive and just as capable engine management tuning systems available other than the hondata s300. I am a big promoter of Megasquirt, especially if you are a DIY'r.
As for the cam i will def do more research on it.
So i will be fine just sleeving it then, no need for the block guard?, i would rather be safe then sorry.
Ok about the megasquirt is it a piggyback or a standalone?, i heard about it before but that was when i had my eclipse, would you be able to give me more info on it?
Oh ya i will be doing all of this my self, well with exception to the machine shop, getting my work station ready for the process, next step get the motor and take the damn thing apart.
06-Oct-2011, 08:27 AM
#9
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Where my car is.
Posts: 5,460
Block guards restrict coolant flow where it's needed most, at the top of the cylinders where it mates with the head. That's where all the heat is initially created and needs to be drawn away. A block guard will restrict the coolant flow there and hinder the function of the coolant to take the heat away. Not only that, but it adds more material in that same location that can be heat-soaked and actually hold the heat there. All of that is bad.
The main application for block guards is drag motors making 500-1000hp+ where the extra strength is really needed in that location. Heat is not so much of an issue with a drag motor because it's only being run for very short periods of time and is allowed to cool down between runs. For driving on the street, or driving it hard on a road course, it may cause more problems than it's worth.
Megasquirt is a full stand alone system that replaces your stock ecu (not a piggy back). It is every bit as capable as any other "big name" ecu systems but is much less expensive, especially if you build it yourself. The other great thing is you can use it in ANY vehicle, not just exclusively one vehicle make/model like hondata. I'll direct you to these websites for all things Megasquirt: http://www.diyautotune.com/ and http://www.megasquirt.info/
I have an MSII v3 I bought for my civic, total cost to have it up and working $450, and that includes an innovate MTX-L wide band O2. A complete standalone capable of handling all the power you'll ever want to make. I may be switching to a different vehicle soon and not end up using it in the civic, but it doesn't matter because it's not vehicle specific. And if you're smart about it, you don't have to hack your stock engine harness appart to hook it up.
Trust me when I say even 250whp is plenty for a small fwd car. Due to the nature of the physics behind making big power in a little 4 cylinder, the more power you want to make, the narrower the powerband and less usefull the power will become. Also the less driveable it will become. Big power requires more air flow, which requires and bigger turbo. The bigger the turbo, the higher the rpms will need to be to spool it. this causes severe lack of torque in the low rpm range and poor driveablity. When the boost finally does come on, it hits like a tone of bricks and because the car is fwd, the tires (even r compunds) won't have any traction and you'll understeer like mad in autocross. If you want a really good practical and usefull setup, aim for more like 250whp. You can make this power with a much smaller turbo which the engine will be able to spool at a reasonable, useable rpm without sacrificing top end power. Even at that much power, you will have traction issues, but it will be more controlable.
My advice is: Replace the internals and aim for 250-300whp max for autocross, street, strip, lapping. Get the engine tunned properly by a well respected and knowledgeable tuner and use quality components for the build. Size the turbo properly (bigger isn't better). The engine will be plenty strong enough to handle it, the power will be much more usefull and controlable, the car will be more fun to drive (on and off the track), and you won't break the bank in the process.
The main application for block guards is drag motors making 500-1000hp+ where the extra strength is really needed in that location. Heat is not so much of an issue with a drag motor because it's only being run for very short periods of time and is allowed to cool down between runs. For driving on the street, or driving it hard on a road course, it may cause more problems than it's worth.
Megasquirt is a full stand alone system that replaces your stock ecu (not a piggy back). It is every bit as capable as any other "big name" ecu systems but is much less expensive, especially if you build it yourself. The other great thing is you can use it in ANY vehicle, not just exclusively one vehicle make/model like hondata. I'll direct you to these websites for all things Megasquirt: http://www.diyautotune.com/ and http://www.megasquirt.info/
I have an MSII v3 I bought for my civic, total cost to have it up and working $450, and that includes an innovate MTX-L wide band O2. A complete standalone capable of handling all the power you'll ever want to make. I may be switching to a different vehicle soon and not end up using it in the civic, but it doesn't matter because it's not vehicle specific. And if you're smart about it, you don't have to hack your stock engine harness appart to hook it up.
Trust me when I say even 250whp is plenty for a small fwd car. Due to the nature of the physics behind making big power in a little 4 cylinder, the more power you want to make, the narrower the powerband and less usefull the power will become. Also the less driveable it will become. Big power requires more air flow, which requires and bigger turbo. The bigger the turbo, the higher the rpms will need to be to spool it. this causes severe lack of torque in the low rpm range and poor driveablity. When the boost finally does come on, it hits like a tone of bricks and because the car is fwd, the tires (even r compunds) won't have any traction and you'll understeer like mad in autocross. If you want a really good practical and usefull setup, aim for more like 250whp. You can make this power with a much smaller turbo which the engine will be able to spool at a reasonable, useable rpm without sacrificing top end power. Even at that much power, you will have traction issues, but it will be more controlable.
My advice is: Replace the internals and aim for 250-300whp max for autocross, street, strip, lapping. Get the engine tunned properly by a well respected and knowledgeable tuner and use quality components for the build. Size the turbo properly (bigger isn't better). The engine will be plenty strong enough to handle it, the power will be much more usefull and controlable, the car will be more fun to drive (on and off the track), and you won't break the bank in the process.
06-Oct-2011, 11:38 AM
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 19
Block guards restrict coolant flow where it's needed most, at the top of the cylinders where it mates with the head. That's where all the heat is initially created and needs to be drawn away. A block guard will restrict the coolant flow there and hinder the function of the coolant to take the heat away. Not only that, but it adds more material in that same location that can be heat-soaked and actually hold the heat there. All of that is bad.
The main application for block guards is drag motors making 500-1000hp+ where the extra strength is really needed in that location. Heat is not so much of an issue with a drag motor because it's only being run for very short periods of time and is allowed to cool down between runs. For driving on the street, or driving it hard on a road course, it may cause more problems than it's worth.
Megasquirt is a full stand alone system that replaces your stock ecu (not a piggy back). It is every bit as capable as any other "big name" ecu systems but is much less expensive, especially if you build it yourself. The other great thing is you can use it in ANY vehicle, not just exclusively one vehicle make/model like hondata. I'll direct you to these websites for all things Megasquirt: http://www.diyautotune.com/ and http://www.megasquirt.info/
I have an MSII v3 I bought for my civic, total cost to have it up and working $450, and that includes an innovate MTX-L wide band O2. A complete standalone capable of handling all the power you'll ever want to make. I may be switching to a different vehicle soon and not end up using it in the civic, but it doesn't matter because it's not vehicle specific. And if you're smart about it, you don't have to hack your stock engine harness appart to hook it up.
Trust me when I say even 250whp is plenty for a small fwd car. Due to the nature of the physics behind making big power in a little 4 cylinder, the more power you want to make, the narrower the powerband and less usefull the power will become. Also the less driveable it will become. Big power requires more air flow, which requires and bigger turbo. The bigger the turbo, the higher the rpms will need to be to spool it. this causes severe lack of torque in the low rpm range and poor driveablity. When the boost finally does come on, it hits like a tone of bricks and because the car is fwd, the tires (even r compunds) won't have any traction and you'll understeer like mad in autocross. If you want a really good practical and usefull setup, aim for more like 250whp. You can make this power with a much smaller turbo which the engine will be able to spool at a reasonable, useable rpm without sacrificing top end power. Even at that much power, you will have traction issues, but it will be more controlable.
My advice is: Replace the internals and aim for 250-300whp max for autocross, street, strip, lapping. Get the engine tunned properly by a well respected and knowledgeable tuner and use quality components for the build. Size the turbo properly (bigger isn't better). The engine will be plenty strong enough to handle it, the power will be much more usefull and controlable, the car will be more fun to drive (on and off the track), and you won't break the bank in the process.
The main application for block guards is drag motors making 500-1000hp+ where the extra strength is really needed in that location. Heat is not so much of an issue with a drag motor because it's only being run for very short periods of time and is allowed to cool down between runs. For driving on the street, or driving it hard on a road course, it may cause more problems than it's worth.
Megasquirt is a full stand alone system that replaces your stock ecu (not a piggy back). It is every bit as capable as any other "big name" ecu systems but is much less expensive, especially if you build it yourself. The other great thing is you can use it in ANY vehicle, not just exclusively one vehicle make/model like hondata. I'll direct you to these websites for all things Megasquirt: http://www.diyautotune.com/ and http://www.megasquirt.info/
I have an MSII v3 I bought for my civic, total cost to have it up and working $450, and that includes an innovate MTX-L wide band O2. A complete standalone capable of handling all the power you'll ever want to make. I may be switching to a different vehicle soon and not end up using it in the civic, but it doesn't matter because it's not vehicle specific. And if you're smart about it, you don't have to hack your stock engine harness appart to hook it up.
Trust me when I say even 250whp is plenty for a small fwd car. Due to the nature of the physics behind making big power in a little 4 cylinder, the more power you want to make, the narrower the powerband and less usefull the power will become. Also the less driveable it will become. Big power requires more air flow, which requires and bigger turbo. The bigger the turbo, the higher the rpms will need to be to spool it. this causes severe lack of torque in the low rpm range and poor driveablity. When the boost finally does come on, it hits like a tone of bricks and because the car is fwd, the tires (even r compunds) won't have any traction and you'll understeer like mad in autocross. If you want a really good practical and usefull setup, aim for more like 250whp. You can make this power with a much smaller turbo which the engine will be able to spool at a reasonable, useable rpm without sacrificing top end power. Even at that much power, you will have traction issues, but it will be more controlable.
My advice is: Replace the internals and aim for 250-300whp max for autocross, street, strip, lapping. Get the engine tunned properly by a well respected and knowledgeable tuner and use quality components for the build. Size the turbo properly (bigger isn't better). The engine will be plenty strong enough to handle it, the power will be much more usefull and controlable, the car will be more fun to drive (on and off the track), and you won't break the bank in the process.
Would i be able to do 250-300hp on the stock intake manifold and tb?, or should i still change it, if i dont need it why get it, to upgrade its like in the $500 mark-S2 Im/S2 70mm Tb
So i can remove a few things from the list then, new list?.
Cometic head gasket
ACL race bearings
ARP head studs
Racing kevlar timing belt
Cp pistons Eagle rod combo- 9.0:1 - .020 - 75.5
Darton sleeves
Bisimoto level 2.4 cam- or another brand?
Bisimoto cam gear- or another brand?
Supertech valvesprings and Ti retainers
Skunk2 pro series valves
Supertech bronze valve guides
Supertech valve seals
Megasquirt
06-Oct-2011, 01:07 PM
#11
Inactive
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Where my car is.
Posts: 5,460
Look into a vitara build. Can get those internals for a very good price and it will handle 250-300hp.
The stock IM and TB should be fine for that kind of power, but upgrading would help achive that goal using a little less boost.
The stock IM and TB should be fine for that kind of power, but upgrading would help achive that goal using a little less boost.
Last edited by MPR; 06-Oct-2011 at 01:09 PM.
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