asuna

I just swapped a 99-00 B16A2 into my 97 HB last summer and would not pass e-test before I put it away for the winter.

I'm running my stock harness with an OBD2A-OBD2B conversion harness to run the 99-00 B16A2 ECU. I also ran all the extra wires for VTEC and the re-wire for the IAC. I've got the check engine light on and scanning the ECU tells me that both O2 sensors that came with the motor are bad.
I also have a ram air intake, pacesetter headers, and 2 inch exhaust from headers back with cat, resonator, and muffler.

I also have an OBD1 ECU(P06, ready to be chipped and modded for VTEC, parts in hand) and an OBD2A-OBD1 conversion harness.

My question is, what should I do to make this pass?
I could buy the proper O2's ($640)
I could get someone to tune my car ($???)
I could tune it myself ($600, HRTuning, wicked deal, Neptune RTP, Software and LC-1 WB, wicked USD to CAD conversion rate at the moment)

Tuning it myself would give me tons of flexibility, but I am a total NOOB to tuning. I am very good with electronics and computers.
I have a basic idea on how to do it, I've read TONS of articles on how to and the basic idea. My biggest fear is running into a wall and not having anyone to turn to with questions, and having to revert back to stock to drive my car.


Anyways, my question is, which route would you take/should I take?

Many thanks in advance.

MPR

Ok, replace both O2 sensors to start. They shouldn't cost anywhere near $640 for both, so I don't know where you got the figure from.

Make sure you a have a good oem style cat (not a crapy high flow).

Once all that is taken care of, have it tested again.

Now, just before you take it to have it tested, retard the timing as far as the dizzy will turn, then use the throttle stop set screw and bump the idle up to about 1000rpm. It'll be now on power and sluggish, but it will help it pass. You can reset the timing and idle after the test is done.

I had to do this with my b16a2 to get it to pass last year.

Good luck, hope it passes!

MyVtecGoesBWAH

^lol i had the same problem Mike and did the same thing as you retarded the timing and it passed no problem

smokeybanana

i was told to run 94 octane when doing etest, the fuel burns better = less junk out the exhaust

chris_v2

False.

The only difference between the fuel is how hot the fuel can get until it self-combusts. All gasolines (from regular to premium) are required to run cleaning detergents. In the olden days, premium had more detergents, but nowadays it`s all the same ****.

chris_v2

If you`ve never tuned before, there`s no way in hell you`ll be able to tune it to make it pass an emissions test.

Give Andrew at Hivelocity a shout, he`ll tune it for you, then run it by my emissions dyno. We can most likely get it to pass. No guarantee`s though.

asuna

Thanks for the replies.
As for the prices of the O2s, I was quoted $320 each back in Sept. Maybe they have gone down since then? Or I was getting hosed.

Chris,
You said if I've never tuned before there is no way I'm gonna tune it myself to get it to pass. How to these "tuners" get started? Where do they learn? I'm very interested in learning how to tune.
I know a dyno helps with performing the tune (having set/controlled conditions and data to back up changes), I just don't have the funds nor the space to get one. I've read you can do the tune on the street, it just takes longer and you don't have hp/tq graphs to back up what you've done. There are no dynos that I can find in the Guelph/K-W area.

MPR

When ever you get a price quote for something, shop around and see if that is correct. I believe you are getting hosed. Either that or extreme part cost mark-up.

$320 is WAY too much for one O2 seonsor.

About tuning... First off, you can't tune with an OBD2 ecu. For hondas you need to get an OBD2 to OBD1 conversion harness and use a chipped(modified) OBD1 ecu and a program like crome/ectune/neptune etc.

There are other options, which IMO are more powerful and cost effective but some will argue with me the other way is a better option. For some it is. For myself, it's stand alone all the way.

And about which fuel to use, I agree with Chris_V2 100%. Stock B16's should be run on 91. No less no more.

chris_v2

They learn from hundreds of hours tuning their own or a friends car. I bet even some tuners today still don't know how to make some set-ups pass emissions. It's not like they have a four-gas analyzer stuck in the tailpipe reading HC, CO and NOx.

You want to start tuning, great.. I have nothing against that. All I'm saying is it'll be extremely hard for a 'noob' to tune his car to pass emissions.

MPR

If you know what conditions cause or produce specific emission gasses, then you can tune specifically to reduce those gasses, but only to a certain extent.

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

Who did you call to get that price for O2 sensors? sounds like a stealership price to me. get then at partsource or something for way cheaper. Either way if they're bad they're bad and there is nothing you can do to make the car pass without fixing that first.

As for learning to tune yourself, if you don't have access to a dyno then you're not really able to tune for your self or others in an efficient manor anyway so it's a moot point but for your particular situation that $600 is close to enough flow to get Zee at High Velocity to tune your car and he'll probably be able to squeeze a little extra jam out of it while he's at it, then save up some coin and get the software and related components yourself and start learning on your own. Get your ECU ZIF chipped and pull out the chip Andrew tuned for you and install a base tuned chip to adjust and play with on your own, maybe try to find a dyno that you can get some time on but honestly you may also wanna start making connections for parts/motors etc and buy another car, say a winter beater kinda thing and use that to learn on, if you blow up a motor and even a good tuner can make mistakes. Replacing a D series is WAY cheaper then a B series. I'm not naming anyone in particular but I'm sure lots of tuners have blown a motor or two while learning. Even the odd experienced tuner makes mistakes that can make a motor puke it's guts all over the floor.

MPR

You can street-tune but the tune will not be as optimized as it would be with dyno tuning. However, tuning for driveability is best performed, imo, while literally driving on the street.

Our MR2, since converting to turbo, has never seen dyno time in the past 2 years. It was only ever street tuned (and I must say has a VERY good tune on it at the moment). We did a CRAP-LOAD of research before we ever started tuning anything in the first place so that we would know what we're doing and what to expect.

It takes a certain level of inginuity, intuition, inclination and knowledge to learn how to tune. One can learn how to tune on their own if they are inclined to and can understand all the aspects. It requires a lot of time, patience and reading.

asuna

Thanks for all the replies guys.
Finally got the car to pass e-test. All it needed was front and rear O2's, a SiR Cat, Some Methyl Alcohol to get it hot, and retarding the timing.

The car with a B16A2 passed as if it had a D16Y7 in it!

Mac21

[/B][QUOTE=asuna;1483392]I just swapped a 99-00 B16A2 into my 97 HB last summer and would not pass e-test before I put it away for the winter.

I'm running my stock harness with an OBD2A-OBD2B conversion harness to run the 99-00 B16A2 ECU. I also ran all the extra wires for VTEC and the re-wire for the IAC. I've got the check engine light on and scanning the ECU tells me that both O2 sensors that came with the motor are bad.
I was just wondering if you have a video on the way you did the obd conversion because i have the same setup and have no idea how to do it

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

This is a really old thread so I doubt that any of the above posts will respond to it. As for your car both O2 sensors going bad at the same time seems like another issue. Perhaps the ECU your running is not right for the swap, making it run to rich or lean, or did you extend wires for the O2? the one wire is shielded and technically even proper extensions are not perfect, but better then most peoples soldering attempts I've seen.

I don't know the extent of your electrical diag skills, but you could check to see if the sensors are putting out proper readings (voltage sweeps within range) Google this if unsure. I'm not 100% sure if the 02 sensors are the same in 2a/2b either, look into that and perhaps your old ones could be used to at least check to see if the code goes away.

If you clear the codes and they come right back, and they're the right sensors, then it's definitely a wiring issue, lazy, old sensors takes a couple complete cycles to trigger a code IIRC

Mac21

Ok I have a 97 ek with a b16a2 swap I used the stock engine harness used a obd2a to obd2b jumper harness using p2t ecu


I used my neighbors obd2 reader and it Said it it was the knock sensor and no csf signal so he cleared then and the light came right back on so then I went to autozone to use their obd2 scanner and it said it was the ckf sensor only so I'm lost

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

.:FFS TechNet : CKF Bypass Trick :.