ton1c

iTrader: (1)

Today we are writing to let you know about a discussion that has been taking place behind the scene between admins and moderators, a discussion which has been very important to us and hopefully to you.

TorontoCivics for the longest times was one of the premier Honda Civic websites for Canada, let alone Toronto. But with current economic troubles, legislation and all those things that follow having a modified car, chatter has quieted down on the forum dedicated to users in Toronto.

Much has changed since the day I became admin in January of 2009. We have seen a cycle of staff come and go, the car club all but disappeared due to lack of interest & lack of leadership and overall moral dip. TCC was a very troubled site in '09 and that was ultimately the reason the previous owners let it go. Every year the core group of great users shrinks, people move onto other cars and then to other clubs or just find something else that takes up their time, the community is shrinking. We don't have the luxury of being a catch all car site, we are a focused Honda Civic community.

With that being said TorontoCivics.com will be closing down, kind of. We are planning to relocate. First off, those of you who have been site supporters will all get NEW decals for free when they come if you want them.
The current staffing will be remaining and the old domain will be forwarding so we wont see much change there. The only change really to come is the domain name will be changing as well as the logo and some section structuring.

We aren’t looking to recreate the 'civic website' as its been done, even done by us to the tune of over a million threads (quality ones too!). We are just looking to expand our horizons and see where it takes us. We are still one of the friendliest and knowledgeable sites out there. It is important for everyone who has been a part of the TCC legacy to know and understand this isn't about 'killing' what we had, this is about us making it live on forever.

In the next few days the new top level domain will become CivicForumz.com . We considered a few different names and acronyms but we wanted something simple and easy that still described what we were, the Z adds horsepower.

Everyone is welcome to chime in, say what they must but please respect that after the admin staff discussing this for the last 6 months (yea, really, that long) it is something that will materialize. How can you as a member make it better? Tell us what sections you want, what you are looking for, perhaps you feel you would make a great staff member because you enjoy the site and want to see it grow or???

That all being said. Thanks to everyone who has made TCC something worth fighting for. We have seen many members come and go, both good and bad. CivicForumz.com will certainly be neat to see grow.

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

I hate the "Z" on the end of it but, you gotta what you gotta do I guess. I'm not trying to turn this thread into a hate on for the new forum, and I'm sure this question came up during your discussions about these changes. I can't stress enough, that I'm not trying to be rude or step outta line here but what do you guys really hope to achieve by changing the domain name? Is it dropping the Toronto part that you hope to add more traffic from outside the GTA, cause there are a million civic web sites out there, and personally my appeal to this one, and the reason I'm not on any other Civic specific forums, is because I like the local vibe of the site. The more popular, JDM based local forum, yeah I'm on there too, but mostly I just look at the occasional build thread and mostly I'm there for the classifieds. Other then that 1 CRX site, that is semi local, redpepper, not local at all but as a 1g CRX owner, you'd have to be a fool not to go round there, those guys know everything about the 1g/3g platform and d-series, and even then I rarely go there.

I feel that, and I may or may not be alone here, but changing this forum will only make it blend in with the crowd instead of helping it stand out like the sites I'm talking about. The Z part really kills it for me, sure most Civic owners are young guys, but are we all a bunch of kids? That really seems more like stupid internet lingo crap that I personally never liked, read my threads and tell me how often you see me use anything other the the odd IIRC or maybe once or twice IMO, but using Z where a s should be, really? I think that is if anything gonna attract the wrong crowd. I never actually received my TCC stickers, but I wouldn't put a sticker with that use of the Z anywhere on my car.

I think that really this site had potential to return to it's old self, but the TCC, outside in the real world, vs here online is where the changes need to be made. More events, getting more involved in what's going on at shows, promotions etc. It seems that the TCC has become nothing more then a forum, where once a week a handful of people show up at a Tim's. More TCC involved events, BBQ's, track days both lapping and the 1320, shows etc, these were all thing the TCC used to be heavily involved in and now seems to be a rarity. A downward cycle, less people showed up, so less stuff was done, so even less people showed and it keeps going.

Again, do what you guys feel is best, and I hope others chime in here to give me reasons why I should embrace the change, you'll never convince me about the Z though.

kaval

Everything has a useful life and perhaps TORONTO Civic Club has reached that stage and it's time to move on to other avenues. There are fundamental things that need to exist in order for something to succeed and bare the bad times. Having said that, if you guys want this new venture to succeed, identify carefully what factors brought you guys to this point and rectify them before moving forward. It's not my place to say what, only you guys (admins) know that, and you have to be honest with yourself if you truly want success.
Regardless, I hate the "Z." I think it's tacky, cheap, and immature. The Honda community is already plagued by immaturity among other things, and to throw a Z in there is perpetuating it. Why can't we spell things properly? lol There's already enough of that on forums in general. Also, there's already a CivicForums.com. So it'll seem like an uncreative and cheap imitation. Sure, there's the argument of "don't judge a book by it's cover" but as Ol Dusty said, there's a ton of civic websites out there, and the Z is enough to make someone not click on the link and go to one of the other sites. If I saw a Civicforums.com and a Civicforumz.com, I would laugh at the one with the Z and click on the one that is spelled properly. I would never rock a sticker on my car with something spelled wrong. My car has two huge stickers and they are spelled properly because these companies look professional and mature.

Let's face it - Civic information is everywhere. Half the sticky'd information on this site is from other sites, so keep that in mind.
I don't want to sound like a dick, but everything I've posted is what I feel to be the reality of the situation. I think the Z is a terrible idea.

ton1c

iTrader: (1)

The Z wasnt our first choice, but in keeping it easy, simple, decal friendly it became the only choice, atleast in the end for me. We considered acronyms but they were awful.
By changing the domain name we hope to change the pace of the forum. Like a club or a bar, sometimes things need to be freshened up. TCC has existed for a long time but has been on a decline since '08.

Yes, drop Toronto and broaden the net. We arent looking to go anymore niche than we are by being JDM, we arent looking to ad tons of sub 16 year old kids to reply to every thread with FTW etc. We are trying to do the opposite, grow in a positive manner.
Nothing really changes with exception of the domain name. Same people, same posts. However, 6+ months from now we can either be flourishing with new members North America wide or still be on the slide. If people make this site what it is, then you really have no reason to leave at all.

I am almost 100% certain that the Z wont sit well with everyone. I cant change what is or isnt available for purchase for the domains. What I can say is that if you or anyone else has an alternative before Thursday morning I am all ears, heck, even after that. TCC will always redirect to the new domain.
As for decals, I also understand that. Most people dont like decals period but the Z may be a turn off for some. If the people are good and the community is strong it will be less of a problem for people.
If you need TCC decals, PM me. Ill send them out.

The reality of outside participation is this. When Michelle sold the site I was told about the club and asked about what and how I would handle it. I always said 'funds' would be available to the club for anything, dyno days, meets, shows etc. When Vicki (pinkcivic chick) resigned from club leader within the first week of new ownership that was kind of it. The club was treated as a separate entity for the benefit of the club, I was to stay uninvolved with the exception of giving funds to support it. Upon her quitting that was kind of it, but the club was already hurt before her resignation. It wasn't Vickis 'job' to keep it going and her 'word' to the previous owners was hers to keep or break, I to this day will honor what I said. TCC / CFz will support ANY forum club.

The community has to want meets, events etc. I look to the staff to want to carry those. Ill put up the cash, ill get the prizes, Ill attend but someone needs to take the reigns on organizing. And while that someone could be you or anyone else, no one has stepped up to offer or formally take control of it and while even if they did I am not sure the scene is what it used to be, but I may be wrong.

The reason you would stay here is because of the vibe. If a domain name is gong to change the vibe for you then I believe you might be packing your bags today. If you are here because of the people then the domain name should be fairly insignificant to you. Without the domain name change there is a chance you could be hanging out by yourself in the next few years

Kaval, I dont really disagree with anything you listed. A 'Z' doesn’t make or break a site and certainly doesn’t pigeon hold the members, atleast not to me. I know of a few sites with Z and they are in no way immature, lame etc. They are very active and have strict forum guidelines, the owner himself is very firm on his beliefs and rules, no idiots allowed.

There are a ton of civic communities out there, I agree. Heck searching Forum yields 10,270,000,000 results. CivicForum yields about 2.8 million results itself. How many civic forums are there out there, I don’t know. What will make this different is the users, or at least that is what should make it different.

The issue isnt losing members over the change because most of us know for every 1-2 members that leave there are 5-15 that sign up a day. The issue is engaging users and having them participate. Our net is cast wider by getting away from TCC.

The Z and decals. I checked both your accounts and neither of you are 'site supporters'. If you paid me personally, excuse my forgetfulness. So in that respect, regardless of the domain neither of you pay to support the site which would warrant decals anyhow. Now, of course I am only talking about financials here. Out of the 3 Ol Dusty is the most active, he is also a gearhead (guessing that’s how he got the tag). If the Z is really going to affect you 2 I really don’t know what to say. I would have though a stagnant, slow dying site would be more bothersome where you guys have invested your time and energy.

It is what you make of it. TCC has tried since '09 to get back to the way it was. Its not the same people, its not the same core of users and its not the same era.

trunk_munkey

I'll give my 0.02, take it as you will. I am not a site supporter. Sorry but at no time on here have I felt enough of a community to support. Mind you I guess I came in at a bad time.
Being a (slightly bias) good business man at one time. Branding is everything, and your throwing that away. Customers didn't find me because of my "stickers" sure but you associate yourself with a brand. If you change that it needs to be a good reason and for a wider audience. Whatever, its the internet ppl can log in from anywhere. Now for the Z. Who is kidding Who? You can't get a better domain name than torontocivics , the Z is because you cant afford the S and that's what makes it ____. Stick to what you had its normal english.
Now what I think...... stop here if you don't take criticism well.

I've read threads on both forums, I don't know all the details but the TCC screwed up. Your fault or not the general masses have moved to ****. Instead of fixing the problems like a good successful business. You chose door B. Learn from your mistakes and be honest. A new name isn't going to make the problems better if you can't deal with them. If you don't invest time and money into something you get what you pay for.

Sorry I'm sure I have more but I work.

MyVtecGoesBWAH

when i joined in early 09 as (89crx_si) i had friends coming to meets and alot of new ppl were joining at the time, but slowy this forum went to **** and the meets started to die out. when i tried to setup durham meets u guys all thought it was a jdm.r thing so banned it and suspended my account, but it was just a meet to get everyone from other clubs together. which could have helped ****** the word to more ppl out here about TCC. personally myself now im not out their to support any forums or club now just come on them to post on random stuff. or looks at stuff for sale.

like Dusty said this site could have tuned around with more TCC events and going out to other shows and promoting TCC. i dont think a name change will really make a difference,dont put the Z in the name. All the best and i hope if works out for you guys!

kaval

I used to work for a company that has an amazing reputation, and has been in business for over 20 years. They decided to branch out and offer a new offering under their current brand name in hopes that the brand recognition would lead their new venture to success. As a sales representative selling the new offering, I could not believe the amount of backlash people had over a name. I would call 50-70 people per day from all over Canada, and at least 50 of those would turn me down on the basis of a name. This is all online-based as well. The new offering was a no-brainer and it was FREE! We would literally be the customer's bitch, doing ALL the work for them (which was a TON of work). Alas, the name was enough to turn them off. While I understand the differences in markets, the basic principle here is that in reality, names mean so much to users. No matter what you tell people about how great it is on the inside, trying to get them in is tough as nails - which leads me to the next comment...

What you guys can do is really focus on events. TCC has been out of the events scene for so long, and coming back with a storm under a new name will definitely help. Look at what people are missing, what people want, and put it together. Recognition is key, and this will get people to COME to the site, regardless of the name, even if it was called "Domesticsftwbro.com". Market market market. Dyno days, BBQs, events (charitable donation = free admission, or free lunch, etc.), lapping days, etc..

While this is true, it's kind of weak. 1 member could add the value of 15 members.

Whether I put money into the website or not should not be something that adds credibility to what I'm saying with regards to the stickers or the Z. Take it as you will though. I'm offering my words as a forum user and a business mind. I'm not offended though so please don't think I'm coming across as such.

You have to look at it like this - if you're entering a BIGGER market, you have to be able to please the MASSES. How are you going to do that?

Unfortunately there are some conflicts that exist between this forum and the other big local one. The interesting thing is that despite the changeovers over the years here, the conflict has still remained in the form of blanking words out, and banning users for repeatedly mentioning the name of the business and forum. What kind of community harbours good people when the top is treating people this way? You guys have to figure out the sponsorship stuff too. So many sponsors are leaving. Heck even TorontoJDM is gone! They obviously don't need TCC because they are doing just fine with business. What does that say about the forum? This is much like a business, and the trickle-down approach is fully at work here. It's stuff like this that prevents me from being more involved in the community in general.

In the end, I wish anyone in a new venture all the best. I just think in this case, there is a lot to analyze and take in before moving forward. How will you guys repair broken bridges, get companies that offer value to the community to come and be a part of this? There's so many questions you guys have to ask yourself. Best of luck!

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

Still not believing that a name change will help but I will concede to the fact that nothing we say will really change anything as far as that goes, so I'll play along, would Civicforum H be usable? I get that civicforum is probably taken or something and the letter is needed at the end but why not the big H? For Honda of course. Or perhaps Civicclubforum is that taken? I think that most of the resistance here is the Z.

Adair

Robb

iTrader: (1)

The new forum name is terrible. This site should be a local forum. Theres hundreds of 'other' civics forums out there.

Also, there should be dedicated forum sections for each civic model, kind of like 'a club within a club'

-1974-1979 & 1980-1983
-1984-1987
-1988-1991
-1992-1995
-1996-2000
-2001-2005
-2006-2011
2012+

Also, I think you should eliminate the forum 'member fee'. This is not a fitness club. LoL

ton1c

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the input.

Member fee is optional, no one has ever been forced to pay for anything.

As for the year break down, I agree, big task. Will have to get some staff onboard to assist.

rick10

Clubcivictoronto.com

teamcivic.ca

tdocivics.com

miss_jess

iTrader: (2)

Not everyone agrees with change but when something isn't working change is generally needed.

Every supporter on this site seems to agree that this site needs work and more activity. Obviously this is not something that is going to happen over night, so hopefully with the name change it will help bring others surfing the web as our forum now won't only be directed to the Toronto and surrounding area.

Overall, I think any change is a good change at this point.

So hopefully everyone will stick around and still continue supporting this site regardless of the name. Annnnnnnd maybe refrain from ripping on the name change will encourages others to also not rip on it.

Majority of you have good ideas on how to improve the site but the initiative to go ahead with any of it is there. If anyone has ideas they would like to bring up we do encourage pming any support staff.

D.T.P

So i see the new name is in effect.

TBH i couldn't care less for the name...its just a name.

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

Since the other thread was closed and I know this one will be too but...

You mention that we complain but don't use the poll? what's the point in voting? you said yourself that only 5 of us out of 200 even respond? You also just shut us down when we give say anything so why should we feel like a vote will change anything?

Honestly, I hate to sound childish but this site and the changes are making this site just another stupid civic site and the few things that made this the ONLY site I donate money to, are gone. The new theme is fine but after hearing people complain as you put it about the stupid Z on the end of the name, only to ignore any and all suggestions, you go and put a car up that is almost as bad a the stupid spelling of forums.

While I'm being so open and honest, it was already hard enough admitting to being not only a member of TCC, but a supporter, other people talk ihst and I don't take it personal, you're entitled to you own opinion, but then you take what is basically the odd kid in the class always picked last for anything and put him in a dress, or should I say drezz.

Asking for how people feel about the new theme and then shutting down the thread when like I said before, live with it, things go different then the verbal BJ you must've been looking for is like a meat head jock saying "How you like my faux hawk brah?" and then punhing anyone who says they liked your hair the way it was.


end rant, close this delete it as long as the admin read it, and even then from what I've seen it'll fall on def ears or what ever anyway.


T.C.C....R.I.P. civicforumz has just become another online classifieds to me and that's about it and since everything here is also posted on J D M R or kijiji anyway...

MPR

Dustin, one thing you need to keep in mind is that this site in is transition right now and not absolutely everything is in stone. The name was discussed at length and believe it or not, this was the best option. If the name bothers you that much, nobody is twisting you're arm to stay here.

You're a cool guy and have a lot of experience and knowledge to bring to the site. It would be a shame to let something so trivial as a letter "z" drive you away.

This is the first major face lift for this site in a LONG time. I'm sure so tweaking of the final details is still yet to come. So I wouldn't panic about one little pic of an EM2 at the top. :P

Also, I know the EM2 is not the most popular or revolutionary civic generation (not my favorite either), but it is disrespectful to the people who do own civics of that generation who happen to like and enjoy them. There has been discussion about cycling through pictures of members cars on the title page (and or top of page). So don't get your panties in a knot just yet...

ton1c

iTrader: (1)

Him and Robb have surely been communicating. Its the second time they posted together about the same problems at the same time.

His loss. He isnt banned but if he pushes the boundaries then yes, we will **** can him.